Conversations for Financial Professionals

CFFP# 15 - How Do Marketing Funnels Work and Do I Need One? Ft. Miles Beckler

Welcome to another episode of the Conversations for Financial Professionals podcast where we are shaping the next generation of financial advice.

 

Today we have Miles Beckler. 

 

Miles is a digital entrepreneur on a mission to help individuals unlock the abundance and lifestyle freedom possible through internet marketing and entrepreneurship.  He brings over 18 years of profitable digital marketing experience to the table making him uniquely qualified and fired up to teach you exactly what is working in internet marketing, right now. 

 

With the goal of being the 'Most helpful internet marketer ever' you've given away your best 'how to' information for free through your YouTube channel which has grown from zero to 100,000 subscribers in under 3 years and through your blog, MilesBeckler.com.

 

Welcome to the podcast!

Show Highlights:

 

• 0:00 Meet Miles Beckler
• 4:10 What is a sales funnel?
• 9:10 What should you narrow down your audience?
• 13:44 The impact of freedom and time on business
• 20:00 Sorting vs. Selling
• 25:30 Video - Where to start?
• 30:06 Why do you need an email list?
• 41:00 How can Miles help you?
• 44:20 Words of Wisdom for Financial Professionals

 

Resources:
Are you a current or aspiring financial professional?  Click here to receive my 10 Tips for jumpstarting your financial services career.

To listen to previous podcast episodes or to by receive a newsletter digest of Jumpstart community happenings, click here.

 

Subscribe to the podcast by clicking here.

Want to connect with me? Join my exclusive “tribe” by clicking here.

Thanks again for listening, reading, and watching!

 

 

CFFP# 14 -Psychology of Money Decisions ft. Annie Emprima-Martin

Welcome to another episode of the Conversations for Financial Professionals podcast where we are shaping the next generation of financial advice.

 

Today we have Dr. Annie Emprima-Martin.

Annie is the owner of One.Emprima (https://oneemprima.com/) where she teaches people how to recognize cognitive dissonance and conflict within the body so they can harness what is needed to propel themselves in business and life. 

 

She holds a doctorate degree in metaphysics, graduate level training in positive psychology, and undergraduate in business and associates in criminal justice. 

 

Welcome to the podcast!

 

Show Highlights:

 

• What types of bondage come from not being aware of your personal money story? Annie tells all!  (4:38) 
• Annie discusses money stories with us. Where do they come from and how do they evolve? (6:05)
• Annie describes what part our post-modern consumerism play into money stories? (11:07)
• Annie tells us the freedom that you can experience from uncovering your personal money stories. (14:35)
• Annie and I talk about the difference between a coach vs therapist vs planner advisor. (20:23)
• Hear firsthand from Annie why you need a coach to maintain your freedom. (24:45)

 

Resources:
Are you a current or aspiring financial professional?  Click here to receive my 10 Tips for jumpstarting your financial services career.

To listen to previous podcast episodes or to by receive a newsletter digest of Jumpstart community happenings, click here.

 

Subscribe to the podcast by clicking here.

Want to connect with me? Join my exclusive “tribe” by clicking here.

Thanks again for listening, reading, and watching!

 

CFFP# 13 - What's Holding You Back from Achieving Your Dream? ft. Teri Ijeoma

Welcome to another episode of the Conversations for Financial Professionals podcast where we are shaping the next generation of financial advice.

 

Today we have Teri Ijeoma. 

 

Teri is the founder of Trade and Travel where her flagship "Trade and Travel" trading course teaches people how to invest for what is important to them. She now has over 1000 students that have entered her “$1000 in a Day”. 

In this conversation we cover so much of Teri’s wonderful personal story, as well as:

 

Show Highlights:

• Teri discusses what caused her to make the leap out of her comfort zone and cross the proverbial fence. (3:53)
• Teri tells me why she thinks the main reason more people don’t make the leap and follow their dreams. (07:42)
• Teri explains her take on starting with ‘WHY” and what that looks like. (10:25)
• Teri takes us back to the beginning at how she got started in trading. (11:54)
• Teri gives me her secret on how she created her course. (18:13)
• Teri tells me about her scariest moments on her path. (21:21)
• Teri reveals her best trade and worst trade. (26:08) 

Resources:
Inspired by Teri’s story and want to check out her course, click here.

Are you a current or aspiring financial professional?  Click here to receive my 10 Tips for jumpstarting your financial services career.

To listen to previous podcast episodes or to by receive a newsletter digest of Jumpstart community happenings, click here.

 

Subscribe to the podcast by clicking here.

Want to connect with me? Join my exclusive “tribe” by clicking here.

Thanks again for listening, reading, and watching!

CFFP #12 From Career Changer to Financial Planner ft. Deanda Wilson

Welcome to another episode of the Conversations for Financial Professionals podcast where we are shaping the next generation of financial advice.

 

Today’s guest is Deanda Wilson.

Deanda is a financial planning analyst in the Philadelphia area.  Prior to her career in financial services she served as a Portfolio Management Specialist at the US Dept of Housing and Urban Development.  She earned a Bachelor of Business Administration from Florida A&M University and a Master of City Planning from University of Pennsylvania. Deanda recently passed the Certified Financial Planner™ exam in November of 2020 and is currently working towards the experience requirement to use the coveted Certified Financial Planner™ marks.  

 

I brought her on today to discuss her journey as a career changer into the world of financial planning!

Show Highlights:

• Deanda tells us one word that sums up her process of  passing the CFP exam and successfully making the transition to financial professional. 
• Deanda will tell you the good, the bad and the ugly about her path of transitioning to a financial advisor.
• Deanda explains her support group and how they helped her. 
• Personal Tips and Tricks from Deanda on making the transition. 
• After making the transition, Deanda explains what life is like after the change in her new firm. 

Resources:
Are you a current or aspiring financial professional?  Click here to receive my 10 Tips for jumpstarting your career.

Listen to previous podcast episodes, clicking here.

To receive a newsletter digest of Jumpstart community happenings, click here.

 

Subscribe to the podcast by clicking here.

Want to connect with me? Join my exclusive “tribe” by clicking here.

Thanks again for listening, reading, and watching!

CFFP #11 What are the Best Marketing Tools? ft. Phil Jones

Welcome to another episode of the Conversations for Financial Professionals podcast where we are shaping the next generation of financial advice.

 

Today we have Phil Jones. Phil, you are a best-selling author of titles like Exactly What to Say, Exactly How to Sell, and Exactly Where to Start. You are also the youngest recipient of the "British Excellence in Sales and Marketing" award at the tender age of 14. You've reached millions across a variety of languages and people groups with your writings, training, presentations, and workshops. You are exactly like...no one else.

 

Welcome to the podcast!

 

Show Highlights:

• Phil discusses where the concept of “Exactly How to [fill in the blank]” came from (06:54)
• Phil defines the differences between marketing and sales for a brand (16:01)
• Phil talks about presenting yourself as a story (19:58)
• Phil talks about what he thinks of when he hears the word “financial advisor”.  (23:14)
  

Resources:
What is Phil’s most recommended source to help turn your marketing plan around?  CLICK HERE to find out.  BONUS:  Leave a review for the podcast, screenshot it to me at hello@jumpstartcoachinglab.com and I’ll send it to you for free!

 

Are you a current or aspiring financial professional?  Click here to receive my 10 Tips for jumpstarting your career.

Listen to previous podcast episodes, clicking here.

To receive a newsletter digest of Jumpstart community happenings, click here.

 

Subscribe to the podcast by clicking here.

Want to connect with me? Join my exclusive “tribe” by clicking here.

Thanks again for listening, reading, and watching!

Recapping Season 1, Preview of Season 2

Welcome to another episode of the Conversations for Financial Professionals podcast where we are shaping the next generation of financial advice.

 

I hope that you have enjoyed Season 1. I am really excited about Season 2 and what we have in store for you.  During this bonus episode, I am going to recap everything from Season 1, including a one-word takeaway from each Season 1 interview. 

 

I will also give you a sneak peek of what to expect in season 2 on topics and guests! 

 

Show Highlights:

• Why I revamped the podcast  (1:54)
• How did I determine the Season 1 podcast theme? (3:29)
• Episode 1 - Seth Godin - (SAGE) (5:07)
• Episode 2 - Cameron Huddleston - (COMPASSION) (6:44)
• Episode 3 - Bob Veres - (CONSIDERATE) (8:37)
• Episode 4 - Neil Patel - (RESOURCEFULNESS) (11:08)
• Episode 5 - Gary Clement - (STUDIOUS) (13:58)
• Episode 6 - Brad Klontz - (INNOVATIVE) (20:17)
• Episode 7 - Ana Trujillo Limon - (THOUGHTFUL) (22:47)
• Episode 8 - Rob Bertman - (VIGILANT) (26:55)
• Episode 9 - Jacqueline Schadeck - (INSPIRATION) (30:10)
• Episode 10 - Andy Andrews - (PERSPECTIVE) (34:20)
• Season 2 preview (38:55)

Resources:

Are you a current or aspiring financial professional?  Click here to receive my 10 Tips for jumpstarting your career.

Listen to previous podcast episodes, clicking here.

 

To receive a newsletter digest of Jumpstart community happenings, click here.

Subscribe to the podcast by clicking here.

Want to connect with me? Join my exclusive “tribe” by clicking here.

Want to collaborate? Click here.

Thanks again for listening, reading, and watching!

CFFP #10 The Power of Your Perspective ft. Andy Andrews

Welcome to another episode of the Conversations for Financial Professionals podcast where we are shaping the next generation of financial advice.

 

Today we have Andy Andrews. Andy is the author of more than 25 books that have been translated into more than 40 languages among those are several New York Times bestsellers including "The Traveler's Gift" which has was named one of the Five Books You Must Read in Your Lifetime by ABCs Good Morning America. Andy also works as a consultant to many Fortune 500 companies and is one of my favorite authors (I have 7 of your books in my personal library). I think you are one of the foremost authorities on mindset and just a sage when it comes to discussing the topic of perspective.

Show Highlights:

• Andy talks about perspective and why it is a key attribute for financial advisors. (6:42)
• Andy discusses his biggest obstacle that prevents viewing things from different angles. (10:17)
• Andy discusses some tangible steps on how to personally develop what Jones called a gift in Andy’s book The Noticer and The Noticer Returns. (10:56)
• Andy gives us some insights on some of his most quoted statements over the years, what they mean, and the philosophy behind them.  (21:05)

 

Resources:

Click here for a really cool offer that Andy gave to #CFFPPodcast listeners!

Are you a current or aspiring financial professional?  Click here to receive tools that will help you become a next-generation financial professional!

Watch a video clip of this episode on our YouTube channel by clicking here.

To receive a newsletter digest of Jumpstart community happenings, click here.

 

Subscribe to the podcast by clicking here.

Want to connect with me? Join my exclusive “tribe” by clicking here.

Thanks again for listening, reading, and watching!

 

Conversation Transcript:

00:00:02
Dominique
Welcome to conversations for financial professionals, a podcast to help shape the next generation of financial advice. I'm your host, Dominique Henderson. And today we have Andy Andrews. One of those individuals that will immediately go into your list of favorites. He is an author of many bestsellers. Today we were able to break into the power of your perspective. How do you gain perspective? What are some of the things that are tangible steps that allow you to see things from different angles to maybe pull you out of a spot that you are currently in, that you don't like? And I get some time to unpack several brain food quotes made famous by Mr. Andrews. This is definitely a podcast episode. You don't want to miss it. We get into so many things, and I know you're going to leave today empowered to become that financial professional, to serve your client at the next level, let's get to the conversation. 

00:01:01
Dominique
Welcome to another episode of the conversations for financial professionals podcast, where we are shaping the next generation of financial advice. And today we have Mr. Andy Andrews, a personal favorite of mine. Andy, you are the author of more than 25 books that have been translated into more than 40 languages, tons of New York times, best sellers, including one of my favorite, The Traveler's Gift, which was named one of the five books you must read in your lifetime by ABC's good morning, America you've been a consultant to fortune 500 companies. Like I said, one of my favorite authors, I think you are one of the foremost authorities on mindset and just a Sage when it comes to the topic of discussing perspective. So welcome to the podcast. How are you? 

00:01:50
Andy
Buddy! Thank you. It's just an honor to be here where you donate Dominique. I appreciate you having me. Yeah. Yeah. 

00:01:57
Dominique
That's great. This power of perspective subject. I know that you are. If I want to talk to anybody, if I had my wishlist, you would be the person that I want to delve into this subject with. But, before we get started, let me ask you, are you excited to see a new year? What do you do, anything special? when the calendar turns, like what, at this stage in your career, what do you do? Anything? Anything like that?

00:02:22
Andy
Dude? Right now, I am not as excited to see the new year as I am glad to be out of the old one. I mean, like if 2020 was a hula hoop, it had been made out of barbed wire. I mean, it was just unbelievable. And, and so, I'm glad to be doing anything different. So, yeah, I, I, I make plans and I, I grabbed hold of, what my responsibilities are going to be for the year. I, have decided that a number years ago, I didn't know why that I kind of veered away from goals. I just, and I didn't want to say anything because everybody, yeah, that seems to be just like peanut butter. I was like everybody and, but something about it bothered me. And, and so I, I began to really kind of go to the bottom of the pool on that subject and go to the foundation of that subject. 

00:03:26
Andy
And, and, I, it's a longer discussion, but I found some things that I feel like, do we want something that has a better chance of working or lesser chance of work? And do we want something to work some of the time or something where it's all the time. And, and so if I made two statements to you, like, if my goal this year was 40 of whatever, I, if I said to with my company, this year, I have a goal of 40. Now, if I said to you, when my company this year, I have a responsibility to produce 40, which one of those carries more weight. Right? I mean, people, goals have gotten to be kind of a thing. I don't know if it's just because it's so common, but they've gotten to be a thing this like, people like, yeah, Hey, don't matter if you miss your goal, you just set a goal. 

00:04:23
Andy
You're at least you're farther along, you're at least you're farther along. And so really okay. Well, if you'd spend most of your life driving, several different ways to a particular destination. All of a sudden, the department of transportation experts declared that there was one particular detour and this was the best way. You became one of thousands of people in your city that decided to take that route. The problem was that so many people kept wrecking along the way. I mean, they're just constantly, but the department of transportation said, well, we've kept track of your wrecks and you are wrecking farther along the way every time. So you're getting closer to your destination. Would that make sense to you? Right. I think that responsibility is the, and as were talking before, it is a nomenclature change, but words matter, and they matter, it matters what you say to yourself. 

00:05:42
Andy
It matters what you say to other people. 

00:05:45
Dominique
No, I love that. I think those are, when we,  I love it because I think this kind of segues right into one of first questions I have for you is about looking at things from multiple different angles. Right. I don't know that this is just this, common to only, or let's just say exclusive to financial professionals. It should be for everybody, but what would financial professionals and, you're working with somebody it's always like, how's my investments doing how my investments doing, which that's one aspect. Right? I love for you to kind of take a little time with the power of looking at things from multiple angles, because a lot of my audience is going to be people that are kind of on the outside looking in to see whether or not this career is going to be for them. 

00:06:32
Dominique
What are some of the things maybe from your personal playbook or your personal experiences that allowed you to start looking at things from multiple angles? 

00:06:42
Andy
The one of the first things, Dominique, that really made a difference to me to be able to, step aside and look at it differently is to understand what perspective actually is. It gives most people. If you ask them, tell me what perspective is,  they would say, Oh, it's how you see something. It's whether you see the glass half full or half empty, it's just is how you see something and you, okay, that's good. But, but in reality, and that's the definition most people hang on, but in reality, it is much more than that. Okay? It is, it's not how you see things. It's how you choose to see things because see your perspective is yours. It's yours. You own it. Nobody can take it from you. It is yours. The glass half full or half empty. The glass is what it is. It, whatever level it is, that's the level. 

00:07:50
Andy
You're the one who chooses. Whether you see it as half empty or half full. Now, the reason this matters is because the perspective you choose about any situation sends you down one road or another. Okay? So, we all know that we don't really want to hire a glass, half empty people. We don't really want to follow glass half empty. We want to hire a glass, half full people. We want to promote glass, half full people. We want to follow a glass, half full people. Aren't children to grow up, to be glass, half full people. So, you can look at a situation, whatever that situation is. And, you can say your perspective can be, this is the worst thing that could've ever happened to me. Okay. If that is your perspective, then you are much likely to sit down, think about it, get depressed, do nothing. 

00:09:05
Andy
And, and you will have been right. Your perspective will have been right on target. It was, it really was the worst thing that could have happened to you because now look what everything's happening now. I mean, it's just been downhill from that moment. Or you could look at this and say, okay, I don't know where I'm going from here, but everything changes and change is part of it. Even the greatest things happened in my life because something changed that I wouldn't have chosen. This is, I think this is going to be the best thing that could have ever happened in my life. Now if you really do think that it allows you to sit up smile, go out, interact, spend what extra time you might have reading, praying, helping somebody doing something, getting some different, knowledge and information. You can look back and go, wow. 

00:10:17
Andy
I mean, how many times have people said, man, if that hadn't happened, we'd never be here. We thought that was the worst thing, there for. We'd said, no, come on now. We've got it. Over and over again, while I live on the coast and long when hurricanes come in here, there are some people who think this is the worst thing that could've ever happened. I think not for it, not for everybody because roofers, there ain't no money in a couple of years, then they most roofers making a lifetime does pretty good. 

00:10:56
Dominique
No, I think, I mean the lighter side of things is one thing. The mindset and I want to play devil's advocate for just a second, because when you were talking, it made me think of something because when I started reading your stuff, I was going through, my family was going through a matter of fact, I was in a, a stint of unemployment. I was like, man, this is never going to end. I remember a mentor saying to me, he's like, dude, do you really think that, I mean, I was like early thirties. He was like, do you really think you're never going to work again and your early thirties? And when he said that, I was like, actually, that makes a lot of sense. Not too long after that, I found your stuff. I remember something about Jones and the noticer I'm going to, I'm a quote real quick. 

00:11:36
Dominique
It's like, I've been given a gift of noticing things that others miss. Maybe you can talk about some of the tangible steps or strategies on how you develop this, because some people are going to say here's a devil's advocate part. Well, that's just positive thinking Andy and Dominique. That's not like that doesn't change anything. Can you actually train yourself to notice things and take different perspectives? 

00:12:02
Andy
Yes. And, I am not a, a like a motivational speaker, person. That's not me. That's not what I do. I actively flag against it. If you look at andyandrews.com, you will never see the word motivational anywhere on it. Now, some people call me that occasionally because they don't know how else to turn what I do, but motivation is encouragement. It, it has a statute of limitations. We all know I could fire you up. You could fire me up, but that's going to last until the first crazy thing happens in our life. And, and, but here's what does matter, what matters is proof, proof lasts. I'm not talking about like a mathematical proof. I'm talking about proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that kind of proof where you hear something you hadn't thought of, or hadn't heard and you go, huh. Well, that makes total sense. I never thought of it that way. 

00:13:11
Andy
What I want to do here with your question is I want to give proof beyond a reasonable doubt here. Now, part of that proof beyond reasonable doubt came with what we're talking about. The glass half empty, glass half full. I mean, I didn't just say you can choose to see it either way. I gave you an example of where a person's life goes when they are thinking that way. All right. I'll give you a real life example, down here on the Gulf coast. I think it was, I don't know, 10, 12 years ago. I mean, you'll remember this happening, but we had an oil spill, the big, oil rig blew up. There were people around here that literally just left their keys in their businesses and just left. I mean, they just left, because the news was saying this would be generations before it was changed. 

00:14:20
Andy
This would be generations that nothing would ever be the same again. Now forget for a minute that it was all cleaned up and less than a year. And, forget that and forget that. We can see, diary entries in Hernando, Desotos men down when they were on the coast of Texas saying there are these black balls of pitch that float up that are excellent for the cracks in our boats. Yeah. The earth has been leaking oil for centuries. Okay. So, so forget that for a minute. Let's just talk about the way people were looking at that time and what they did and what, the way they, like I said, so we're a fishing community. This is a sport fishing community. There's a lot of charter boat captains here. These guys have the big boats that they run out for a red snapper out 20, 30 miles out. 

00:15:24
Andy
They take charter boats full of tourists and people. It's, it's a lot of money to go and they use a lot of gas and these boats cost a lot. They're all paying notes on their boats. Like most people do on their house, right? And so this is their business. When that happened, it shut everything down. Well, the banks didn't say, okay, you don't have to pay for your boat. These guys were in a world of hurt. And, and all of a sudden, with everybody saying, this is the worst thing that could possibly happen. As we're saying there, my boys went to school with some kids and that dad was a charter boat captain. He went in his boat, one morning and shot himself and killed himself. Which is a, a, a permanent solution to a temporary problem. This shook this community up in such a huge way. 

00:16:37
Andy
And, and I, I had said, I, I didn't say this in response to this, but I'd always said in Tama crisis, you're not lacking money. You're not lacking time. You're not lacking leadership. You're only lacking an idea. One idea, we've seen one idea, make millions, we've seen one idea, make, save millions of lives. One idea will get you from where you are to where you want to be one idea. It's just a thinking thing. The, the idea of the thinking, you don't look at your industry, you don't look at what everybody does because the results, the data is in on that. Okay. Okay. So, so you begin to look in other areas, look, in terms of value, how can I be valuable? How can, what I know be valuable to other people? How can I create value for other people? You look in other ways. 

00:17:38
Andy
There were a bunch of charter boat guys. One of them are really good friend of mine that they said, people are coming down here like crazy. Because they want to see this oil spill and the national guards not letting them on the beach. Why don't we charge people like 20 bucks and we'll just ride them around. They, they started loading people on their boats and I get on the little microphone. I go, if you'll look to your left, you'll say some oil over on the right bank. There is oil up ahead. We'll be coming to some oil. And, they were riding around for an hour for 20 bucks, come back, pick up another load of people driving around. They were making more money than they made fishing without the fuel costs without going out and getting beat up in the waves. When the oil spill was cleaned up, they were like, Oh man, the oil's gone. 

00:18:47
Andy
And so they're like, I guess we gotta go back to fishing, but my buddy Chris said, no. Don't, we have seen so many dolphins when these dolphins are in shore all the time. You can find them really easily in a boat. So they started dolphin tours, dolphin tours. That's how that started down here, these dolphin tours. Chris would send his 12 year old boy in a skiff out in the morning, Chris would advertise dolphin tours and it's like, 20 bucks. If you don't see a dolphin, you don't have to pay. He would send his 12 year old, out in a little skiff in the morning with a walkie talking. And, the boy, dad, founded officer Dan around bear point, and they're right there, take her down. There you go. Chris always got paid and, but it was an idea just thinking. 

00:21:05
Dominique
You unpacked so many nuggets of wisdom in that story. I mean, it's just, I'm thinking specifically the fact that, I have financial advisor, friends, financial professionals that like, Oh, COVID man, I can't get out to see clients. I can't do this. And I can't do that. It's just the matter of the way that you look at it to see if you're going to make lemonade out of lemons, or are you going to sit there on your hands and complain and moan. So then, that was beautiful. I love that. I want to take the balance of our time together for you to take some of the quotes that I've heard you say, you may or may not remember this, but in 2014 I took my, cousin. We drove up to Oklahoma, which is about a three hour drive, Oklahoma city. And you spoke at a leadership summit. 

00:21:55
Dominique
I think it was like crossroads church. It was you and John. I have a ton, well, not a ton. I have a handful of like soundbites that I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so great. I want you to kind of maybe just expound on those just somewhat of a lightning round, if you will. Okay. So, okay. You said, and I think you alluded to this, but maybe if you want to unpack more, you said proof is better than encouragement because you never have to wonder again. I think about this in the light of what I just said about COVID and how people feel this thing about the imposter syndrome. I'm not there yet. So I can't give people advice. I can't charge people for that expertise, but maybe kind of expand on that whole notion around proof is better than encouragement. 

00:22:41
Andy
Yeah. Prove is better than encouragement because proof has to be aligned with truth. It has to because it has to make sense. Okay. Because, because we're talking about not a mathematical proof, you can't mathematically prove things around us, or situations or actions. We're talking about a proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That's that kind of proof where people go, wow, well, that makes total sense. I never thought of it that way. That kind of proof has to be aligned with truth and it has to stay aligned with truth because at any point that somebody begins to get information that proves this wrong or that it tends to make them say, well, no, wait a minute. Well then it's no longer proof. So it must be aligned with truth. If you can align that truth with proof, then there you go. And, and I, I hear you about the imposter syndrome, but we've all had, I mean, when we think back, my favorite teacher that I ever had was in the eighth grade, her name was Mrs. 

00:24:06
Andy
McLloyd. Matt, can you get the key to the cabinet and grabbed me, Ms. Mac Lloyd's picture of that. I got to tell you, Mrs .McLloyd. She is just my favorite. She's my favorite teacher and world. And, and so I remember she was the first person who told me I could write. She was the first person that told me I was funny. One time I made some crack in the class and everybody laughed. She said out of my room, I was like, man, she said, get out of my room. I was horrified because I loved her? She followed me out in the hallway and she turned around and she said, okay, you're funny. All right, you kill me. You just kill me, but you got to let me have the class sometimes. Okay. You are funny, but you need to have timing. You need to pick your moment. 

00:25:00
Andy
It'll be funnier and you can write funny too. So you're a writer. I always remember her well then, and I just loved her. She was the first person to me that, well then years later, yeah. I'm like 50 years old. I go to that city and I'm speaking at something. I, they asked is anybody you want to see? I say, yeah, I want to say Mrs. McLloyd. They brought her in and I was expecting some creaky old lady? Oh, she was like about my age. I realized, well, when I was in the eighth grade, she was in her first year of teaching. She was just like trying to stay a chapter ahead of us. Wow. She could have said, no, I'm not worthy. I don't know enough to teach this yet. I don't know. She was the best kind of teacher. Here's Mrs. McLloyd. 

00:25:58
Andy
She was the very best kind of teacher. 

00:26:02
Dominique
That's great. That's great. I love that for imposter syndrome. That, that, I mean, like, do you get some time? I was just telling my group, you've got to do things afraid. Don't let this year be a year when you miss opportunities, because you're afraid. Do it afraid most people that you see that are successful, do things afraid all the time. That story sounds like a perfect example of that. 

00:26:23
Andy
Yeah. Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is doing something in the face of fear. I mean, you show me a fighter pilot. Who's actually been in battle that says he was never scared. I'll show you somebody who shouldn't be flying a plane. Cause they're crazy. 

00:26:45
Dominique
This is a good point. This is a good point. Okay. Let me do this one. Average people compare themselves to other people, but extraordinary performers compare themselves to their potential. 

00:26:59
Andy
Yeah. That is, that I have found that to be true over and over again, average people compare themselves to other people. When you think about it, that is why they end up being average because they go, am I doing good? Am I doing good? Am I not doing good? And if they're, if everybody else is kind of, they're okay. If they're a little behind those speed up and if they're a little ahead, Hey, they relax. I'm going to take a weekend off. Now a perfect example of somebody who compares themselves to their potential. I've worked with Nick Saban, a bunch and I say a bunch, is, a great relationship with Nick. We don't see each other often, but he is a, he's an awesome guy. His wife has better than he is, which is what we should all be able to say about our wives. And, and so, but Nick, one time I was watching a game and I was with a bunch of friends who were fans of the other team. 

00:28:07
Andy
Well, one of the first things I said to Nick, when we got together, as I said, I want to help you compete in ways your competition doesn't know a game is going on. And that's what I do with businesses. I help them compete in ways the competition doesn't know game is going on. Nick was a perfect person to work with because he compares himself with his potential. I'm watching this game and it's two minutes to go. He's ahead. It's a national championship game. He's ahead, 21 to nothing. Two minutes ago, national championship game, and one guy had a false start. It was a five yard penalty, stopped the game and they showed Nick on the sidelines. He was just like, yeah, he was just going nuts. Somebody in the room that I was in said, okay, Nick, calm down. You're gonna win the game. You've already got it won.

00:29:11
Andy
You don't have to act like that. Just calm down and be enrolled kind of condescending. Well, I didn't say anything, but I knew what was happening because one of the things that we had worked on and competing in a way that competition and no games going on is the kind of people were going to be so that the officials would have a more positive view of us then a less positive view. And, and so were going to do things and act in certain ways because, officials, I've worked with sec officials and Sunbelt officials and they can call holding on any play. They want to call it. They can call it anywhere. Okay. What the person in the room did not know is that they were about to go through an entire national championship game without a single penalty. And it was too much. Yeah. Now in reality, Nick was fine with that because it wasn't perfect. 

00:30:16
Andy
He was able to, and so comparing yourself with your Potential is tough sometimes because every time you get close to it gets farther out. And so you have to regroup. You're always looking for the best. I remember the first conversation I ever had with coach Saban. He's, I've asked a lot of people, what are you looking to do? And you wouldn't believe how many coaches dominate you and believe how many coaches have said, I want to have us in contention for the division title every year. I'm like, I want to walk out because I don't want to go, dude, you can be in contention for the division title every year and be fired in four years. You better think bigger than this. When I asked Nick that, he said only win five national championships in a row with one team. Wow. Now I haven't done it yet, but right now he's on track to pass Bear Bryant, the most national championships ever. 

00:31:35
Dominique
No, I think that's really powerful. I think that segue is this last, quote I want you to opinion on, which is the principle of the path. It is direction that determines destination, not intention, right? The intention may be, I want to be in contention so that I can win a championship. If your direction is not like, Hey, I want to win this thing. It's, like in the NFL we go it's Superbowl or bust every year. If you don't have that in your mind, it reminds me of a book before you opine on it reminds me a book. It's by, it's called Psycho-Cybernetics by Dr. Maxwell Malls. He talks about how the brain is basically a turn by turn GPS. If you don't give it an instructions, you don't know where to go. So I think. I think, I think the Nick Saban attitude, as opposed to his peers are, Hey, I got this particular direction. 

00:32:31
Dominique
It's very specific. This is the only way I'm going to achieve this goal is if I put that in there. Now, granted, I may have a flat tire. I may have whatever, but I'm going for broke. 

00:32:41
Andy
Right. Right. And, and he, boy, he has a, he has ingrained that in that culture, and that culture has also leaked into the fan base and alumni. It's, it's amazing, what the expectations are here. So, but the idea, this is the one that they, you just laid out. Tell me again, the turn by turn GPS. Now the path. Yeah. The principle of the path.

00:33:21
Dominique
The principal path. It is the direction that determines destination. Yeah. 

00:33:24
Andy
Yeah. Intention, not intention. I, I had PBS specials years ago and there was a, another guy that had a PBS special at the same time. He was a lot more famous and it just like, it slaughtered my ratings all the time, and said that didn't bother me. The only, the thing that bothered me was I had already gotten into this thinking deeper, idea, this idea of thinking to the bottom of the pool, that I have a book called The Bottom of the Pool. It's a book that Forbes called one of the seven books. Every entrepreneur should read. And it's a very different business book. I had gotten into this thinking to the bottom of the pool thing. The title of this guy's PBS special really bugged me. The title was The Power of Intention. I mean, I'm like, and I still believe there is no power intention. 

00:34:48
Andy
There is no power. I mean, are you serious? Because I mean, if I came to you and I said, Dominique, I cannot believe the way my wife is treating me. The way she talked to me last night after I intended to bring her flowers and the way she's treating me lately, after everything I have intended to do for this woman, you would go, are you out of your mind? Are you kidding me? He didn't do anything he was just intended to. You think, well, where do you think? And, but that's the way people live their lives. And so it's not intention it's direction. The principle of the path says is not intention that will determine where you go his direction. And, and that's why the, there is, a horrible question that people ask. There is a great question that people can ask. The horrible question was, is this all right? Is this is okay. 

00:36:02
Andy
All right. Because that, see it as functioning adults in the world, we know where the line is in just about every situation we know where the line is and where do you cross into real trouble? We know where that line is. Okay. If we know where that line is, why would we snuggle up so closely to the line? Right? I mean, if where the edge of the cliff is, you don't walk the edge. Okay. But, but people allow themselves to get closer and closer to it by going, well, is this okay? And they tell themselves, yeah, this, okay, sorry. I moved a little closer to the line. They go, oh, what about this? Okay, well, it's technically is okay. Technically, you know, get a little closer. What about this, okay. It technically is probably better to ask forgiveness than ask permission and then before they know it, they're having to think about how far over the line can I operate before I start seeing some consequences and then it's disastrous. 

00:37:25
Andy
Okay. The great question, people can ask that reveals the principle of the path is this a wise thing to do, because is this a wise thing to do that reveals direction? I mean, we look sometimes at situations when we, you could have seen that coming down the pathway, right. And, and a lot of things we do, they, people say that success is slow and that is true, but they forget that failure is slow too. I mean, when that jail door slams shut that all, didn't start that day. Yeah. That was a long time coming. And, and so is this a wise thing to do is a great thing to live as a great thing to teach your children. This a wise thing to do because it reveals the pathway that you're on? 

00:38:36
Dominique
No, I think that statement right there could be, the sum of just about all the SCCs violations for any financial professionals that we've ever seen, if they would ask that question first, that we probably wouldn't have the amount of fraud well, to bring this thing into, for landing, as this is a podcast to help empower tomorrow's financial professionals with tools to serve their ideal client in a much deeper level, much better level. In that context, Andy, what word or words of wisdom would you have for the next generation of financial advisors? 

00:39:11
Andy
I would say number one, to think clearly to the bottom of the pool, where you will find, you think clearly to the truth, there are things that can be true and yet not be the truth. There are, in, one of the biggest minefields you will ever traverse in your life is the minefield of true because people stop when they get answer that is true because it's an answer and it produces some results, but there's a book called Good to Great. And it's a great book. Okay. It's a great book. Millions of people have done very well by following this book, but I would challenge anybody to say, look, there is a difference in great and best. So let everybody else good to great. I think you need to good to great to best don't stop it. Great. People stop at what is true, where they can drill down deeper into the truth and they can get answers that will solve problems that will heal. 

00:40:38
Andy
That will, that will add a, the truth is like the foundation. That's the Bible that's as far down as you can go and you'll know when you get there, cause you can't ask why anymore. Now you see this on TV news all the time, these guys arguing, and somebody will say, well, why is that? ? And then somebody will say, well, it's because there are no more fathers in the homes and her go well, that's right. That's right. I move on to another topic. Okay. Well, that's true, but okay. So, okay, well this and this. Yeah, yeah. That's true. Okay. Why is that? Why is this and this oil because of that and that. Okay. You can go to the bottom of the pool and you can, the answers you need in every situation, but don't be fooled by stopping at what is true. 

00:41:44
Dominique
Wow. Wow. That's great. Mr. Andy Andrews. Thank you. This has been an honor, personal pleasure of my own to hear your wisdom. Here just the Sage advice that you have on all these topics, wishing you a very great best 20. 

00:42:07
Andy
Thank you, buddy. I appreciate it. I'd love people to visit us, Andy andrews.com and we do some live things. I I'm in wisdom Harbor studios here in Orange beach. I want to give you right now on the air while you will feel compelled to answer me with a yes, I would love, I, I do is probably not nearly as good as yours, but I do a podcast called the professional noticer and I would love to have you as a guest on the professional noticer. 

00:42:46
Dominique
Absolutely no question. That's a no brainer. 

00:42:50
Andy
I mean, I am serious. I, I feel very blessed to have gotten to know you just. I, I, I just, man, I can sense your heart and, your readers and listeners or your followers are very fortunate to have you, but, 

00:43:09
Dominique
Well, thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate that. I really appreciate that, but no, yeah, let's make it happen. I, I definitely would enjoy that, but great. Thank you so much. 

 

CFFP #09 Finding Your Voice and Holding Your Ground in Financial Services ft Jacqueline Schadeck

Welcome to another episode of the Conversations for Financial Professionals podcast where we are shaping the next generation of financial advice.

 

Today we have Jacqueline Schadeck. Jacqueline, you are a Certified Financial Planner and Accredited Wealth Management Advisor currently practicing in Atlanta, GA at Sherrill, & Hutchins Financial Advisory, Inc. You've also spent time on the FPA of Georgia board and the Kennesaw State University (your alma mater) Black Alumni Society. You are also a recent author of "MONEY PLANNING AND POSITIVITY: A GUIDE TO A BETTER FINANCIAL LIFE". I consider you one of the foremost IG personalities when it comes to someone that is doing it the right way and a role model for not just young planners but all planners.

 

Today we are going to discuss with Jacqueline as an outsider looking in at a young advisor getting started, your mindset, personal development, engaging on social media, and more! We will also ask Jacqueline about her perspective on the number of women in the financial industry profession, the barriers that they feel, and how to lower the barrier during your initial client meeting! 

 

Show Highlights:

• How did Jacqueline start her new year, what goals did she make and what changes did she make (3:09)
• Jacqueline's tips on ramping up your social media visibility (7:57)
• How to find your voice, but still keep your personal life private (14:27)
• How to overcome the Imposter Syndrome in the industry (16:23)
• Jacqueline’s advice on building your firm and career changes (20:44)
• How Jacqueline navigates the gender dynamics in the industry
• Jacqueline discusses her book and the four pillars of wealth (37:52)
• Jacqueline’s word of wisdom (40:16)

Resources:

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Watch a video clip of this episode on our YouTube channel by clicking here.

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Subscribe to the podcast by clicking here.

Want to connect with me? Join my exclusive “tribe” by clicking here.

Thanks again for listening, reading, and watching!

 

Conversation Transcript:

00:00:00
Dominique
Welcome to conversations for financial professionals, a podcast to help shape the next generation of financial advice. I'm your host, Dominique Henderson and today's conversation is with Miss Jacqueline Schadeck. Jacqueline is a certified financial planner and accredited wealth management advisor currently practicing in Atlanta with Cheryl and Hutchins financial advisory. She is one of those that you will definitely want to jot down some ideas and nuggets from this podcast about finding your voice and holding your ground and financial services. If you look at her Instagram profile, you will immediately know what I'm talking about. She has done so much in this space to really give planners a way to personally brand what you're doing as a financial planner, inside your nine to five, helping clients and showing an aspect of your personal life that helps clients realize that you're a real person. We dive into all types of topics in this conversation, including her own struggle with mental health and being very transparent about how to take care of yourself as a financial professional. 

00:01:17
Dominique
You won't want to miss this episode in this conversation. You'll definitely leave with takeaways for being able to find your voice and to hold your ground in the financial services profession. Let's go to the conversation. Welcome to another episode of conversations for financial professionals, the podcast where we're shaping the next generation of financial advice. Today we have my friend and colleague Jacqueline Schadeck, Jacqueline. You are a certified financial planner and accredited wealth management advisor currently practicing in the ATL at Sheryl Hutchins financial advisory. You spent some time on the FPA board of Georgia, Kennesaw state university, alum. Also, you are the recent author of money planning and positivity. I also consider you to be one of the foremost IG or Instagram personalities when it comes to someone doing it the right way and just being a role model for young planners. Welcome to the podcast. 

00:02:18
Jacqueline Schadeck
Hey Dom, it's good to see you again. I'm excited to be here. You got the bio pretty much, all accurate. The fact that I am a dog mom and Mr. President is around here somewhere. So, you may see him.

00:02:37
Dominique
Yeah, yeah. Great stuff. Now I can't leave out the furry four legged friends. I have, I hopefully my, Blue won't be barking in the background. I totally know how that is. During client meetings. That seems like when they want to, act up and things of that nature, but cool. I'm glad to have you here. Let me ask you this question right quick, because I know, we just got through in 2020 we're 2021. 

00:03:00
Dominique
Now what is on the plate for you as far as, do you do any goal setting or vision planning? Like how do you usually start the new year? 

00:03:09
Jacqueline Schadeck
That's a really good question. How do I start the new year? So I actually, every year write down my goals and it's more of like a forward looking kind of thing to keep me on track. It's not just like my career goals or how much money I want to make, but it's a combination of, I parcel it out. Right. I have like my personal goals to like, what do I personally want to achieve? Like my intrinsic goals for the year. I have like relationship goals and spiritual goals. I write all of that down and I've been doing that for, in the same format since 2016. This is my fifth year and it's been kind of exciting. Actually. I keep the book here with me so I can flip through here. I looked back at my previous years and was like, Oh wow. You know, I did that. 

00:04:03
Jacqueline Schadeck
I did that. Or, I decided, Hey, that wasn't actually a fit for me. I change up the goal. So, one thing that I do when I set my goals is I actually set a word for the year. The word for this year is focus. I know a lot of times we can get sidetracked by some of the noise out there, especially with social media, where we can kind of get deviated from our purpose. This year, my word of the year is focus. 

00:04:35
Dominique
No, I love that. I really love that. I picked a word of the year. I haven't really been doing that consistently, but this year for me was all about patients. Not necessarily, not just patients outside of me with others, but patients with myself too, like patients to reach my goals, knowing that I'm where I'm supposed to be and not trying to get ahead of that or any of that kind of thing. So, I love having a word of the year. I think that segues beautifully into, why I asked you on, because, finding your voice and kind of holding your ground in financial services. I know you and I have kind of talked about the, what I would call the overdone subject of, maybe to diversity inclusion and gender equality and things of that nature. I think some of those topics kind of get pulled into what I want you to kind of opine on today because as I'm kind of looking from the outside in, I think a lot of young advisors would see like myself or you or any of our other peers, and I'd be like, it's easy for you guys. 

00:05:37
Dominique
You guys are, you've been doing it awhile, but maybe kind of speak to like the process of what you just named. Like, you're going back in your journal and you're looking at, Oh, I did that thing. I, I, I figured out this thing or no, that, wasn't a good thing. Like talk about how that has helped Jacqueline find her voice. 

00:05:58
Jacqueline
So. 

00:05:59
Jacqueline

The process has not been easy if you've heard me on any other kind of podcast or any other platform talking about my journey I've lately, like in the last year or so, been explaining it as, okay. I said that, this thing happened in my life and it triggered me wanting to be a financial advisor and then boom, here we are CFP. It's just like one linear just journey. I've elaborated on that recently and been like, yeah, it actually wasn't that easy at all. It actually was very, difficult. There was a lot of nights, while I was studying for my CFP that I wasn't able to be social. I had set a goal of, I want to pass the CFP exam on the first time. And, for those in the state of Georgia, the Georgia bar in order to be an attorney actually has a better pass rate than the certified financial planner exam. 

00:07:00
Jacqueline 

That made me really ancy inside when I was studying for the exam. I was like, I have to do whatever necessary to pass this on the first time, because I cannot go through this again. If anybody has gone through or is considering the Ken's on review course, it's a great review course. I use that in order to pass on the first time, but if you've gone through it, that it's rigorous, it's several months of dedication, which does pay off, he has a really good pass rate. This is not sponsored by the way, but it was very helpful. That process from deciding I want to be a financial planner to actually becoming a financial planner, was difficult. What I wished that I would have had more of at the time was a mentor or something similar to your program that you offer the jumpstart program, which I guess you are in a form of mentor in that program. 

00:07:57
Jacqueline
And, that would have been really helpful for me to be able to navigate to where I am. I think I could have gotten there quicker, more efficiently. So, I do have a couple of mentors on my own that I talked to and, I tell them these are things that I wish that somebody would have told me earlier. I think that these things could have made the process smoother. Just to share a gem with you guys, you're watching this on some form of social media or listening to it on some kind of a platform. Make sure that as much as you're listening on that platform, that you're also putting into that platform. It's important that you're visible on that platform as well, even if you're not entirely sure you're going to be a financial planner or you're going to be client facing, you never know what benefits are going to come from building a tribe for lack of better words. 

00:08:50
Jacqueline Schadeck
You have a following, those are people who are buying into what you're showing on that site, right? And so, even if you decide to navigate and go in a different direction, those people who have bought into you as a person and what you stand for, they're still going to follow along with you. That's one of the gems that I like to drop for my mentees is like, Hey, how can we ramp up your visibility and your building of, relationships with other people. I like to share that, but like I said, that process, it went very up and down. And, I think that I found some ways to find myself, to make myself more grounded, such as, keeping track of those goals, such as reaching out to other people, and forms of mentorship and, pursuing additional education. All of those things have helped me along my career. 

00:09:43
Dominique
Yeah. I want to go back to something you said earlier, because I mean, one of the, so we obviously met, or not obviously, but we met at a financial advisor conference, the quad a, conference. I think it was maybe that year. It was in Atlanta. I can't remember right now, but I think it was, but what I want to bring out is afterwards, I started seeing your IG profile and just to be candid and transparent, like your nonfinancial advisory way of doing stuff on social media is actually what it's inspired. A lot of me coming out of my shell. I think one of the things, and the point I'm trying to make here is I think our industry has really, it's got this really buttoned up side that is pretty polarizing to potential clients. To actually show who you are as a person that you're developing goals as a person that you're doing other things I know that from your IG, I know that you like to play basketball and ride motorcycles like that has nothing to do with being a financial planner, but that's part of Jacqueline, right? 

00:10:49
Dominique

I think what I, some of the thing I, I tell mentees is that, life makes you living life makes you a better financial planner because you have advice about life and not just the black and white, program. Like the CFP is great as it is, maybe kind of, dig a little, dig deeper. Shane Parris says ,double-click, double-click on this issue of like how you started maybe tangibly developed tangibly, developing some of the, things that are kind of germane to you right now. Maybe you're like running past this, but other people are like, okay, well, wait, I need to have a plan. Like I don't even journal or things like that. Maybe talk about how that started for you or some of the milestones. 

00:11:37
Jacqueline Schadeck
The social media stuff just happened organically. Honestly, I was seeing a lot of, just, I think people were catching on to like influencers they're catching on to the fact that people, aren't what they show to be on social media, which, I'm obviously like multi-faceted, and there's more dimensions beyond what you see on social media. I was like, okay, I think people were like getting that, like, Jacqueline, you're not just a financial planner. Like you do other things too, whether the other things are really cool, like being a collegiate athlete or riding a motorcycle, there's other stuff that you do hang out with your friends pre COVID, you do have a dog, what kinds of things go on in your life? Like it can't just be financial planning. Like you said, the more life that you do, the more experience you have to share it with people. 

00:12:34
Jacqueline 

And so it's just a good thing. I think, to share that with the world, part of your story, you don't know who needs to hear that you don't know who's going to get motivation from that. You don't know who's going to snap out of a depression from that. You don't know who's going to be able to overcome the challenges that they're going through by hearing some of your story. 

00:12:56
Dominique
A good soundbite. I love that. You never know what part of your story people are going to resonate with. Do you use that as, how do I want to say this? Because there's certain limits in our industry as far as compliance is concerned. Like how did you make the decision on what you were going to limit the world to see about you, but still being able to find your voice and still being able to make that mark like you're talking about? Cause it does seem sometimes there could be a fine line depending on the organization you're in. 

00:13:28
Jacqueline
Yeah, absolutely. It can be a fine line depending on the organization. Just like your own personal beliefs in what you personally want to share with the world. I think a good way to gauge what you're going to set share on social media. If you are a financial advisor or working in an advisory kind of company is I don't share anything that I don't want to sit down with my highest net worth $12 million client and talk about anything I share on there. I'm willing to have a conversation with my, highest priority clients about, so when I made a post in the summertime about mental health and I exposed some of the mental health issues that I went through, some of that, projected me into writing money, planning and positivity, and I share more about why I hone in so deeply on being a positive person and, bringing that out through financial planning. 

00:14:27
Jacqueline

I, I wouldn't be ashamed to have that conversation with my clients. I think that it's important to keep that in mind, not only do you have compliance, that is a hurdle that you need to jump through, but you also have the fact that like, whatever you put on there is exposed to the world. All of my social media is public, so anybody can see it at any point. I don't put anything on that I wouldn't want to talk about. I also don't do anything in my career or, I try not to do anything in my day-to-day life that I wouldn't want to talk to anybody about that I wouldn't want to own up to. Like you said, our industry is still, I like the term, but boattend up on that, we are still buttoned up and there's not a lot of like breathing room for advisers to be able to share their story or to be able to share stuff on social media. 

00:15:21
Jacqueline

For those of us that can, we're really winning right now, as you can see Dom, I see you're winning. For those of us that can, we're winning right now. I would like to encourage people to just be on there in any way, shape or form that they are comfortable. 

00:15:37
Dominique
Yeah. Yeah. Let's go back to, some, maybe some steps that maybe you use personally to kind of lean into that. I know sounds like self-awareness was a big one. Even personal development, you even, I guess I missed the post about, mental health. I mean, that's been a huge thing. Especially in the last 12 months in this country, probably believe, way more cases of that not being talked about versus have been talked about. Maybe you can kind of opine on that just a bit, because I know as a financial professional, one of the things that I struggled with at first was imposter syndrome. It's like, I'm telling people to do this and I'm not really there right now and blah, blah, all the mental garbage that goes on in that maybe you can speak to that for just a second. 

00:16:23
Jacqueline

Absolutely. Imposter syndrome, that's a good one touch on. I think you will give some of that kind of a feeling when you're first in the industry, like, wow, like I'm telling people with millions of dollars what to do, and I don't have millions of dollars. It's not necessarily, I want you to change your mindset about that as opposed to being an imposter. Just say that you're in preparation for that and you're going through the process. If you talk to any, if you are client facing or you just talk to anybody that's older and has more money, let's say 60 plus ask them their story of how they got it. They either inherited it. They, had some windfalls or they spent time building that up. I mean, there's, I don't know how many other ways there is to get it, but generally they would have spent their entire lifetime building up that money. 

00:17:26
Jacqueline

The term that I like to use for people is to extend yourself, grace, because you're growing, you're learning your bank account is going to be growing as well, as long as you're taking your own advice. Just know that you're going through the process. I wouldn't consider yourself an imposter, but just that you are working through the process. As far as the mental health goes and like managing that and talking to clients about that, I honestly have learned so much about trauma in the last, like two years. Things that like, I didn't even know. Not even about myself, just about trauma in general. The biggest thing that I've learned is that, trauma doesn't have a timeline. So. 

00:18:18
Dominique
Unpack that. 

00:18:20
Jacqueline Schadeck
Yeah. A lot of times we think like, okay, this really bad thing happened to Dom when he was a child and Dom should be over it by now because he's an adult. Well, that's not how trauma works. You're dealing with clients and they say, they may be 70 years old and like, no, I need to keep this amount of money in cash. And, because this happened to me when I was younger and you might be thinking like, Oh my gosh, like that was 50 years ago. It doesn't matter because trauma doesn't have a timeline. Not only do you need to extend yourself, grace, when working on your own issues, you need to extend your client's grace and understand that trauma doesn't have a timeline and that, they may be dealing and working through something, for their entire life. You just have to be cognizant of that and be gentle with that. 

00:19:16
Dominique
Oh, I love that. I think, I think that's a really good insight. As you were talking, I was thinking about my own practice in my own conversations with clients, because there are money stories that they bring to the table that sometimes, and I learned this earlier on that there's not necessarily my it's not necessarily my job to sit as judge with a right or wrong. It's like they went through these things. We validate the experience we inspect, whether or not that mindset that they've adopted is correct. What about that mindset? Maybe limiting them to reaching their goals. Once you pose it like that, then they're like, Oh, okay, now I have the power to change. It's not like I'm a victim or anything like that. I know often, because of maybe the knowledge that we heap up in our CFP programs or whatever it is, maybe our own baggage, I know it is for me that, they're the first predisposition is to judge when that's not where the client needs to be. 

00:20:18
Dominique
I love that giving your clients grace, and giving yourself grace too, and stepping back I'm curious, how has your firm helped this process at all? If any? because I know sometimes we're not in the most ideal situations when it comes to let's call it the first two, three, four, five years of your career. How has your firm helped. 

00:20:44
Jacqueline 

The best advice that I can give when working with your firm on compliance, or any kind of growth oriented kinds of things is I would say, try to do that vetting before you sign on as an employee, because vetting, I did that vetting before I signed on as an employee. I said, Hey, I am into the social media thing. I like to share things there. I like to be vocal. As far as being growth oriented, I knew that I wanted to get another designation. I knew that I wanted to finish my masters. I asked, what kind of support do you provide for that? What's going to be the timing. There going to be any kind of grace on, can I take time for schoolwork, that kind of a thing. I try to do that vetting before I get into that position. Now, if you're already in that position and you're trying to figure out what to do next, it's just important to have that conversation with your supervisor like, Hey, these are my goals. 

00:21:46
Jacqueline Schadeck
This is what I'm trying to achieve. This is how I want to go about it. Now, if the goals are related to being visible on social media, you of course are just going to have to check with the company's policy. And, you just have to follow a company policy. There's no other way to go about it. Typically what I've been noticing is, more leniency, not necessarily on the broker dealer side, but on the RIA side, more leniency on the social media front, where you can share, financial tips and things like that. Like for me, I just personally would never share actual like investment tips. I would never say, Hey, it's time to go out and buy a Tesla. That's not really where I stand on social media. So, it's just important to figure out what those guidelines are for you. Then, having that conversation with whoever it is that would need to approve that. 

00:22:41
Dominique
No, I think that's really good wisdom Jacqueline, because I think some especially career changes, I see this a lot, aspiring financial professionals. They're so excited and maybe they've taken my advice. I've watched way too many YouTube videos of Dominique saying, don't worry about how you get in the industry. Just get in. Yes, but it is good to kind of know what you want to have mapped out some of your goals, which is the reason why I think, getting a mentor or having somebody that you can look up to. That's like, Oh, I want to kind of be like them. You can go ask questions of them and their network and be more informed. You're just not jumping into any position. You actually have an idea of where you're trying to go some type of career path. That way you can be more selective about where you land and when you get there, you're not like, Oh, I feel so constricted. 

00:23:27
Dominique
It's like, well, you didn't really study the environment before you got there.

00:24:30
Dominique
I want to touch on something that I caught on a podcast. I don't remember the name of it. I don't remember the address of the podcast, but you were on there. This goes into the topic, about women in financial services. I think the soundbite I caught was basically how you may be interacting with a couple, a husband and a wife. Though the energy that you bring as a female or a woman into that relationship often kind of breaks down the barrier that some men may feel, because let's just be honest men in this industry, whether you're practicing or you're a consumer, you got way too much pride and ego in this thing. There's this way too much bias and being in love with our own opinions. We already know how that works, but maybe you can kind of revisit that topic. If, if in fact you remember what I'm talking about, I think what I'm really kind of coming the angle I'm approaching is the value of a woman's perspective in the financial planning relationship. 

00:25:42
Dominique
Because what I notice is when we have that husband, wife dynamic, we always have one. That's kinda like the one that does, like the family CFO. Usually when it's the man, he pushes the woman out and makes her like a, an appendage almost. She's not a full partner and I don't know where this comes from, but when it's the flip, I usually see the woman include the man. I think this is just like gender dynamics but let's talk about how you navigate through that. I think this is an interesting topic, to kind of talk about, 

00:26:16
Jacqueline 

Yeah, I, as soon as you brought that up, I was like, I think we talked about that in our first podcast. Go back and listen to that, but I'm still rooting for women. I still think that we've made better financial advisers. I mean, part of it is that emotional intelligence, that's part of being a financial advisor. You have to have emotional intelligence and you have to obviously have intelligence. With it's because there's always, when you're doing financial planning for clients, there's always an emotionally correct answer. And there's a mathematically correct answer. Two, I think in my opinion to be a good financial planner, you gotta be able to balance both of those with your clients. As far as women being better financial advisors, I think that, like you said, men like want to hear their own opinions. What I was saying was that, part of why women, I think make better financial advisors is because when we are in that a setting where there's a husband or wife, or I'm working with just a male client, there's less of that need to feel like he needs to prove himself as being big, bad, the best investor. 

00:27:32
Jacqueline Schadeck
He needs to make sure that, Dom doesn't think that he doesn't know what he's talking about because a man always knows what he's talking about. So. 

00:27:43
Dominique
Is so fragile. 

00:27:46
Jacqueline Schadeck
Right? So I think because of the emotional intelligence and then just some of that natural womanly nurturing, 

00:27:55
Dominique
I think you're hitting on some things and this is the reason why I encourage them no matter where they are usually. Cause I tell it, I mean, even 45, 50 year old career change, and I'm saying like, you can still do this. You can still have a lot of impact. This is one of those careers you can do well into your seventies. I mean, think about it from the standpoint, there's just a different angle. There's a different perspective. I'm all about perspective. I, I appreciate and recognize that there are different perspectives, whether I agree with you or not is something totally different, but I will definitely listen to you. I think that's the value in having a difference in opinion, whether we're talking about gender, whether we're talking about race, ethnicity, all these different things, all need to be incorporated into our industry. I'm sorry I jumped on a pedestal. 

00:28:42
Dominique
Go ahead. 

00:28:44
Jacqueline 

No, I was going to piggyback on that. I mean, we need to be accepting of other people's choices. It's going to be really hard to be a financial planner. If you cannot accept other people's choices for. It's not that you always agree with them, but you still have to just let people believe and do what they want to do. This has been a politically charged year. So, you've gotta be willing to accept people's choices. You're gonna have political conversations with clients that you're not going to agree with. Are you going to get into a raging argument with them or are you just going to accept their choice for what it is? So speaking to career changes that are older, that story changes. The thing that I think that's so beautiful about being a career changer is that you've had so much experience before. You get to share, I went through this personally, I wish I had known this. 

00:29:43
Jacqueline 

I would've been so much better off had I done X, Y, and Z. I mean, that's a beautiful thing about being a career changer. One of my business mentors, when I first got into financial planning, this person was not a financial planner. He was like, well, why are you then trying to become a financial planner straight out of college? He was like, go do something else, get some experience and circle back to financial planning later when you have some experience to share. I obviously didn't follow that routes. I had followed my heart, but I think there being a career change later on in life can beautiful. 

00:30:20
Dominique
No, I think it gets back to that point that we made earlier about, some of, experiencing life riches, enriches the financial advice that you do give because you do have, whether it's, being a parent or, that you've been married a long time or whatever it may being in a career for a long time, developing all the different transferable skills that are there. I think, you made a point earlier that I want to kind of opine on before we, kind of bring this in for a landing, which is, the idea around accepting other people's perspectives. I think the big idea here, and I want to get your opinion on this. I think the big aha for me is that because I listened to somebody or I gave them an audience, because I'm just genuinely curious on how they think doesn't diminish who I am. It doesn't diminish what I stand for. 

00:31:13
Dominique
Doesn't make me any less of a person. I think that, to me, that's one of the things that I think is one of the reasons that we're so politically charged now. The word that you used earlier is because we're so intimidated by how people think around things. I think as a financial planner, I can't afford to be that way with my clients if I want to deepen the relationship. Would you agree? 

00:31:34
Jacqueline
Yeah, I would agree wholeheartedly. You know, it's not it's clients. They will say verbatim from their mouth. I know this isn't good. I know you don't agree with this, but blah. I say that they do. They say it and they say, I wouldn't did X, Y, and Z. I know you're not going to be happy about it, but here it is. What do you do? Do you fly off the handle or do you say, Oh, okay, well I'm glad, what I mean? 

00:32:04
Dominique
That's a bull state I'm usually like, okay. How does that, rework the plan? Like, so what is the implication here? What is the application from what this is Toby? Yeah. 

00:32:14
Jacqueline 

Yeah. Working with them on that front and being accepting of other people's choices is important. I want people, I want financial planners to practice what they preach and to be free to be themselves. What I mean by that is I don't want you to just put on your financial planner hat and then you're accepting of people then when you're not a financial planner, you're raging flying off the handle. Like it's not okay. I've seen it on social media. I've seen other advisors being attacked on social media for diversity inclusion for some of their views. It's like, why can't we just be accepting of like, that's what works for them. This is what works for me. I want people to have that same kind of a feeling throughout, in one of those podcasts that I think you had soundbite from, they asked me, am I the same positive person in real life that I am on social media? 

00:33:13
Jacqueline

I just turned the question on them. I said, well, you guys have talked to me off camera. What did you think? And they were like, it was pretty good energy in the room, like, okay, thank you. I want this to be a real genuine thing. I don't want it to just be by a financial planner. Like I want all the black to be positive. That's something that I preach to my mentees is like, don't do things just for your career's sake. Like do things for your own personal growth that you can have flourished through your career. 

00:33:44
Dominique
No, I love that. I love that. That's the whole idea about just integrity, really right. Being whole, the Person that they see on social media is actually Jacqueline. Now granted, you're not going to see every a to Z thing, but the, what I'm showing you is actually a genuine representation of who I am. 

00:34:02
Jacqueline 

You wouldn't want to see everything a disease. 

00:34:06
Dominique
That's with all of us, right? That's about once. 

00:34:08
Dominique

A day, honestly. So I have to say. 

00:34:13
Dominique
On, your book, money planning and positivity of guide to a better financial life. I think that really captures the essence of what I wanted to have a conversation with you about, which is finding your voice. Talk about finding your voice with this particular book. Why didn't you write it? What was the kind of the gist behind that? And I know you've alluded to that in the podcast, but kind of give us the, the version of the story that you want everybody to remember. 

00:34:40
Jacqueline
I'm so glad that you asked Dom. Writing the book, we have talked about the Genesis throughout this podcast. The thing that we didn't talk about is the goal to actually write the book. I would have to go back and double check, but I think it was maybe 2017 that I said, like, these are my 10 year goals. Like I write them down, like these are my long-term goals. I was like, thing, an author would be cute, but author on the list. Author had been on the list for a few years and it hadn't tackled it yet, but I see it every year subsequently. 2020 and everything that happened this year really propelled me into writing the book. I spoke earlier to my own, well, really to the post of my own like mental health issues. You can go back and see on my social media. 

00:35:29
Jacqueline 

I posted it in August, I believe. Part of that, as well as wanting to be an author and then, shout out to COVID for the lockdown. I wrote the book bearings, 

00:35:44
Jacqueline
Well, I was locked down in my house. I think this is the first time I've heard a shout out to COVID. 

00:35:52
Jacqueline 

Other time, shout out to COVID. I told you we're going to flip everything and put a positive spin on it. So thank you for that. COVID forced for me to sit down and actually write the book. And, as I was setting the 10 year goal, I had heard a podcast or YouTube video or something where this motivational speaker, I can't quote them. I don't know who it was, but he said, what if you could accomplish your ten-year goals in six months? And so I set out on a mission to do that in 2019. Some of it got done, some of it didn't, but some of it got done this year, which was the book. Money planning and positivity speaks to what my brand is. A couple of years ago, I had just adapted that kind of tagline. So, as I was trying to figure out what exactly it was that I wanted to write about, I wanted to make sure that, there's no other books in the works, but I wanted to make sure that my first book, possibly my only book, is actually encompassing of what I stand for. 

00:36:52
Jacqueline
So this is what I stand for. It happens to be a book that works well with my career, but I really wanted to write something about what it is that I believe in. I believe in financial planning, because I know the effects that it has on a family, whether those affects are good or it's absent from planning. And then you see those negative results. I just believe in the power of financial planning for your own wellness. The positivity piece, because, not only have I had my own mental health struggles, but with COVID, I haven't talked to anybody who didn't have any mental health struggles this year and who doesn't regularly have some issues. So, I don't know when we're going to stop calling them mental health issues and just like adulting part of being an adult. All of those things led me to want to write money planning and positivity. 

00:37:52
Jacqueline 

In the book, I break it down into four pillars of wealth. The first pillar being actually healthy, I had a short stint with COVID, at the beginning of the lockdown where I myself was sick for several weeks. I want to make sure that was included in there. I talk about, of course, financial wealth, social wealth, and time wealth. The book breaks down all four of those pillars that really just hold up your entire life. That's why this is a guide to a better financial life, because I feel like your finances are the heartbeat. So, I really, hope that people find this book enjoyable. I hope it is something that is helpful for your life. It can be found on Amazon. I'm sure we'll link it. 

00:38:38
Dominique
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll give them all the resources that you provided me with too, to get a hold of it. I think this is great. I think, I mean, as I'm just thinking, back on our very first podcast to this one, and hopefully this doesn't say condescending, but know me, as being older, but I just, I'm astounded and impressed by your maturation in this industry, as not only a planner, but as a woman. Kudos to you, hats off to you. You're doing a great job, with what you're doing and for the profession as a whole. 

00:39:21
Jacqueline 

Thank you. I appreciate it. When that side of launching things, getting things out there, I've had a lot of feedback from your side, and a lot of people have mentioned you during our last, I think there's been a couple of years of knowing each other. I want to commend you as well for your efforts. I know making YouTube videos and podcasts and like all the content and all the ways that you help young advisers get into the profession. I know it's not easy work. Somebody has to do it. I appreciate you for helping propel our profession forward. 

00:39:53
Dominique
No, no, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Well, Jacqueline, as this is a podcast, to help empower tomorrow's financial professionals with tools to serve their clients at a deeper and more meaningful level. If you have any word or words of wisdom for tomorrow's financial professional, what would you leave them with? 

00:40:16
Jacqueline 

I would leave tomorrow's financial professionals with keeping yourself and keep pushing forward. 

00:40:24
Dominique
Mm. Yeah. I think the message of being able to take care of yourself as a professional speaks volumes, especially what we saw in 2020. I think it, that is, it needs to be underscored in bold and TeleSign because there's no way you can be a good service professional for your clients unless you first take care of yourself. So I love that. 

00:40:50
Jacqueline 

Absolutely. It's very important that you're not attaching yourself necessarily to a company or to a title, but that you do realize that you are your own brand, especially in this digital era where you can brand yourself. You are your own brand. 

00:41:08
Dominique
No, that's great. Finding your voice and holding your ground and financial services. Thank you, Jacquelyn Schadeck. 

CFFP #08 The Future of the Student Loan Crisis ft. Rob Bertman

Today we have Rob Bertman. Rob holds both the coveted CFA and CFP® designations and is a University of Michigan alum. As a senior consultant for Student Loan Planner, he helps borrowers rid themselves of student loan debt. 

 

Rob is also a Family Budget Expert helping parents find the extra money in their budget to reach their financial goals.

 

Today we are going to talk in depth about the student loan crisis. Rob will answer:  (1) Just how bad is the crisis through his first-hand personal assessment of the situation; (2) what the contributing factor(s) is/are; and (3) some potential solutions, practical tips and the student loan system in general. 

 

Show Highlights:

• The student loan crisis and why it is so bad (4:22)
• What is the contributing factor to the student loan crisis (8:16)
• How has COVID and Virtual Learning affected the Student Loan system (11:08)
• Why are 18 year olds able to get into debt with thousands and thousands of dollars of student loan debt (14:11)
• Rob’s Family Budget Expert, what that means and the philosophy behind it (19:33)
• Rob’s advice on what to be on the lookout for on budgeting and repaying student loans (18:28)
• The COVID relief for student loans, how it has helped (32:08)

Resources:

If you'd like to connect with Rob, click here.  Need a strategy to eliminate your student loan,  check out the Student Loan Planner.

Are you a current or aspiring financial professional?  Click here to receive tools that will help you become a next-generation financial professional!

Watch a video clip of this episode on our YouTube channel by clicking here.

To receive a newsletter digest of Jumpstart community happenings, click here.

 

Subscribe to the podcast by clicking here.

Want to connect with me? Join my exclusive “tribe” by clicking here.

Thanks again for listening, reading, and watching!

Conversation Transcript:

00:00:00
Dominique
Welcome to conversations for financial professionals, a podcast to help shape the next generation of financial advice. I'm your host Dominique Henderson and today's conversation is with Rob Burtman. Rob Bertman is a senior consultant for the student loan planner, and helps borrowers rid themselves with student loan debt. I am so excited for this conversation today because we talk about the student loans crisis and how bad is it? Rob is going to give us some solutions. He's obviously got the stats because he and his colleagues over at student loan planner have counseled over 4,500 people in student loans. And over $1.2 billion of loans council. So he knows his stuff. You talk about solutions. We talk about fixing the mess and how this can be avoided in the future. When we start to think about the long-term ramifications of the student loan crisis, I want you to leave this podcast knowing, and feeling empowered not only as a consumer of financial services about there, the fact that there's help out there for you, but as a provider of financial services, to know that you can find experts in this area that will enhance the client relationship and take it to the next level. 

00:01:17
Dominique
So enjoy the conversation Rob Bertman, welcome to another episode of the conversations for financial professionals podcast, where we are shaping the next generation of financial advice. Today we have Rob Bertman Rob you hold both the coveted CFA and CFP designations and our a university of Michigan alum go Wolverines. 

00:01:41
Dominique
I have five from the, from way back in the day. That dates me. 

00:01:44
Rob
Yeah, I remember too. I remember, Oh my gosh, but you are a senior consultant for student loan planner where you help borrow. 

00:01:54
Dominique 

Rid themselves of student loan debt. I guess when you're not bulldozing student loans, you are known as the family budget expert, which is your brand to help parents find the extra money in their budget to reach their financial goals. Even if the cost of raising kids is breaking the bank and stressing their relationship. Having put two kids through college at this point for myself and working on the last one, I really wish I would've met you about six years ago. Welcome to the podcast. 

 

00:02:15

Rob

Hey, thanks for having me Dominique and happy to be here. 

00:02:24
Dominique

Yeah, man, this is great. You and I know, 

00:02:28
Dominique
A shared circle of individuals, Lauren Williams and Travis, and Megan, there's this like so many, really cool people that you're working with over there. I really, am happy and excited that you're here today talking to us about student loans and what I would,  maybe don't, but the future of the student loan crisis. Right. Cause I do see it that way, but before we dig into that, tell me how's 2021 been going for you a, we all had a 2020 to remember how has the new year been treating you so far? 

00:03:06
Rob
Yeah, it's been okay so far. I mean, personally, fortunately we're doing okay. We're hanging in there, with three younger kids, it's always an adventure, but, fortunately I have a good relationship with my wife and my kids. That's about all I can ask for these days. 

00:03:20
Dominique
No, you're right. That's, it sounds like an attitude of gratitude, which is what you decided to kind of posture yourself as being, so I'm very happy to hear that. 

00:03:30
Rob

Yeah, thanks.

00:03:32
Dominique
Let's kind of dive into this. I think there's probably three areas that I think would really benefit not only consumers of financial services, but also providers of financial services. When we're talking about this subject of student loans, cause this is a fairly large gargantuan topic. If I'm thinking about it from the standpoint of how bad it is and what are some solutions and then how do we kind of fix this mess type of deal is kind of the way that I think people would get the most benefit about, doing this. You've been with student loan planner for a few years, if you're a few years now and I just want to get your macro take as a person boots on the ground. Am I, when I call this a crisis, am I overstating this? Or am I spot on? 

00:04:22
Rob
No, I think, I mean, you're spot on. I mean, a lot of people are hurting with student debt. I mean, there's one and a half trillion dollars, out there, which is, a million or 1.5 million,  million is basically another way to put a trillion. In other words, I mean that's a lot of money and more importantly, it affects about 45 million people. I can tell you when I started, so I have a background investment management and securities analysis and financial planning, and I just thought of student loans, you just kind of approach it. If you can, you just do it the traditional way, line it up, cut your budget and pay it back as fast as you possibly can. What I learned however, is although we are in a crisis that actually the federal student loan repayment, guidelines and strategies are actually pretty accommodating for people and it doesn't have to be the burden that people think it is. 

00:05:16
Rob
That's something that I had absolutely no idea. When I started as a student loan planner three years ago. And, three years later, 900 consults just personally later and advising on over $200 million of student debt. I know that there is now a way, and I'm confident that I can help people, that there is a way to, instead of having to build your life and career around student debt, that there's a way to build the student debt and loan repayment strategy around the career in life that people want to live. That's been something that when we're talking with people individually, or when we get questions from people that it's such a burden for people, and it affects their lives so deeply that when they realize that and when they can see that it actually, I mean, you can just see the weight fall off their shoulders, drop the weight falls off of their back and they can now operate and feel good about it, but it is a big problem for sure. 

00:06:08
Dominique 

Yeah. I've, I've often compared this and it sounds like I've been right to do this. I've compared the student loan crisis to the housing crisis, except for the fact that at least with the housing crisis, you had a mortgage, you could actually go sell the property. Whereas I don't know that you can mortgage your brain. Like, there's like, there's no collateral. Like this is, one of those loans where the holder of the paper, which is maybe the reason why this thing has gotten securitized so many times and yada I'm the holder of the paper is really like, kind of SOL there's really nothing else you can do. But, I guess what I'm trying to say is the implications for what this may mean for taxpayers 10 or 20 years down the road, because in a lot of instances, it's not the private sector that backs these loans. 

00:06:54
Dominique
If I'm not mistaken, it's the federal government, which means taxpayers. So, what is your assessment of what this looks like at the current trajectory 10 or 20 years from now for, taxpayers? 

00:07:07
Rob
Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, the OMB, the office of management and budget, they only project 10 years down the road. A lot of these programs, there's different things you can do. Like, income-driven repayment plans where at the end of the 20 or 25 years of payments, based on income, whatever loans are remaining get forgiven. We, these programs are so new that they're not even 10 years out from people reaching that. We don't really know what it's going to look like, but, I think what happened is, when the federal government starts getting involved, started getting involved in student loans, it kinda gave universities a free pass to raise their tuition. What you're seeing now is the cost of education skyrocketing. I mean, it was, big back in the day when you were or I was  in school and like the nineties and early two thousands, but I mean, the growth of tuition is just been insane, especially for graduate level professions like veterinary school chiropractic school, dentists, dentistry school. 

00:08:06
Rob
I mean, all of these post-secondary or I guess, graduate level professions, the cost of tuition is astronomical. And so go ahead. 

00:08:16
Dominique
No, no, go ahead and finish that. I was gonna, I was going to, it's a perfect segue into what I was going to ask, which was, what do you think is the biggest contributing factor? I was reading not too long ago. Some, some writings that, Thomas sold did, and he was basically talking about this education inflation factor. I just look at my own stuff, so I graduated in 98 with, I had all scholarships, but I think the cost of me going to school was something less than 10 grand a year. My son goes to the same school, but, Texas has flat tuition, but the point is it's like 26 grand and I'm like 250% over, less than 20 years. I mean, that does not make sense. I thought normal inflation if you're just doing the math of it. I guess my point is, and maybe you've answered this. 

00:09:03
Dominique
Hasn't really been consumer demand for education that has pushed the cost of education up, or has it really been, I guess the backstop of student loans being paid for essentially you're guaranteed by the government that has allowed these institutions to just jack up the education prices. 

00:09:24
Rob
It it's both really, I mean, college education is important for those that can do it. I mean, if you think about the top income earners in the country, and now the top income earners are concerned about how they're going to pay for their kids' college. To me, this is all really unsustainable because at some point, people, I think that the top schools like the Ivy league schools and stuff like that, they're always going to be able to increase their tuition because there's a demand for people that can afford it, or for people that get scholarships to go to those top level schools. What's happened is especially in, let's say pharmacy school or, chiropractic school, is that there are schools opening up all over the place. Even though there's more seats to fill there because the demand has been so great, they've been able to increase their tuition at the same time. 

00:10:13
Rob
You have more seats, rising tuition, college becoming less affordable. There's, something's gotta give at some point, I just don't know exactly what would, that would be. 

00:10:26
Dominique
My deal is just anecdotally, man, I don't know, in this gets into some of the solutions, I'm wondering how much A. COVID has help decelerate this xceleration if you will. Because if you're, if you raise the, if you increase the amount of seats increase the amount of tuition, obviously your top line revenue, just from a mathematical standpoint increases, it's like, where is this money going? Because there are universities right now. I know this, my daughter goes to Sam Houston, like these classes are being done hybrid or almost all virtual and the buildings are empty. Where's the money going? Like, is it going to pay professors? Like, I'm just curious, like, do you have any thoughts on that? 

00:11:08
Rob
I, I think that schools are building up amenities to attract students. It's becoming competition of going to the campuses and seeing who's got the best campus, the newest buildings, the best dorm rooms, the best off-campus housing, which is some of the decision-making. Also combined with the fact that, there are a lot of major colleges and universities that are really building up their endowments and you have some of the top schools with multi-billion dollar endowments. And, and you would think that in the COVID crisis that these endowments would be used to subsidize tuition or to help people out in these tough times, but they haven't done that. In fact, tuition has say the same or gone up even in this year. I, I, I think the, I don't really know the answer to that, my guess is that it's just going, I think the cost of operating these schools and universities are very high, but there's also a lot of profit in there. 

00:11:59
Rob
I think some people are going to get more wise too. I mean, so for undergraduate, we have to look at undergraduate degrees different than graduate level degrees, because well, just undergrad getting a college degree is, important in terms of the expected earnings over someone's career. And, but, once you get out of the top 25 top 50 schools, it doesn't matter that much as much of in terms of employment, where that degree comes from. 

00:12:30
Dominique
Just to clarify, you're just saying school number 25 in school, number 26, there's a marginal difference. If any, with your lifetime earnings, with going to the 25th or 26. 

00:12:42
Rob
Yeah. I mean, obviously you want to go to a school that has great, faculty and you get a great education. That's A number one, but the employability, the employment opportunities for people after getting a college degree, it's not what it used to be, right. It used to be that if you had a college degree, you get certain jobs. Before COVID hit, the economy, some employers because of unemployment was so low, some employers were saying you don't need a college degree, just, we need people to work. So just come and work. For graduate level degrees, it can really boost the income up even more. For example, the difference between a college graduate and a physician, or like a college graduate and a dentist, those are some really big differences. Paying a lot of money to go to graduate school like dentistry school or to medical school can actually really dramatically ramp up the income. 

00:13:35
Dominique
Are now, let me ask you this. Are you seeing the proportion of debt that you're counseling on is attributed mostly to the graduate studies versus the undergrad, if you had to divide it up in a pie? 

00:13:48
Rob
Yeah. Part of that is because there are caps on how much people can borrow on the federal program for undergrad, but for graduate level programs, there's essentially no cap. So, whereas someone might only be able to borrow, let's just call it a hundred thousand for undergrad. They can borrow 400,000 for Denis school, or 200,000 for medical school. And, so most of the six there's over 3 million people with six figures of students. 

00:14:11
Dominique
That out there and pause right. Quick, crazy, because I was just thinking, and I, and so this is not totally accurate, but okay. Let me add 40 years. You can have a, let's call it a 675, go score and barely qualify for a mortgage, which you can be a 22 year old grad student and qualify for 200,000 or $400,000 of money to go to school. Isn't this correct?

00:14:40
Rob
Pretty much. I mean, there are limitations around it. I mean, for people that can't borrow through the federal program, there are, getting private debt to finish. The education is a little different, but then we get into get into large numbers, if someone's buying a car and let's just say they want it, they're gonna buy a car for 30,000. Okay. That's a lot of money. Now, if they, if someone wants to, get all the bells and whistles and have the car, and it raises the price of buying the car to 35,000 people, don't really blink at that because they're already spending 30. So it's another five. Well, it's another $5,000. When people are so invested in their education and then they see when they look at the projections of what school is going to cost, they say, Oh wait, but they're going to increase tuition every year. 

00:15:24
Rob
Oh, wait, the loans I took out, they're going to be accruing interest. Some of them along the way as I go. When I graduate, I'm going to owe a lot more. To have to take out a lot more at that. At some point you have to say, I just got to finish this thing. Cause I already, I'm already a hundred thousand in debt. Why not go 300,000 in debt or whatever. The law, what's the difference between a hundred thousand and 200,000 when you're in that mode psychologically, it doesn't seem like a lot, but when you're paying it back it is a lot.

00:15:50
Dominique
No, I, Hey. I know, I think he bring out one aspect of this that I never thought about was the psychological aspect. Really the psychological trap of this when you started something, the human nature is since we're gold, striving beans is to finish it, no matter what the costs nominally on paper, black and white, I'm signing my life away. I think what I've heard too is, especially, I've heard this with lawyers where it's like, well, I'm going to be making X when I get out too. So, I'll be able to repay this, but then maybe kind of walk us through, well, yeah, you're making X gross, but you still got to, you got health insurance, you got taxes, you got, hopefully you're putting, well, you some money in your 401k and then you're getting a percentage of every dollar that you actually make. 

00:16:37
Rob
Yeah. I mean, unless people have worked before college or in college, it's hard to know what the paycheck's actually going to look like, because unless someone's had, has paid for their living expenses, it, you don't really know until you actually start doing it. And, and once that happens, all of a sudden making a hundred thousand dollars, it's only taken home four 5,000 a month, and that's a lot different and you make these choices based on a hundred K, but you're not taking that home. The good news is with student debt, is that, is these income driven repayment options. So, if we think of student loans, they can actually be treated more like a tax rather than a debt. What I mean by that is, the best repayment programs right now, you can pay based upon 10% of your income. If someone is going into, if someone's going to increase their income substantially by finishing school or finishing a graduate level degree, they have their state taxes and federal taxes, unless you live in Texas and you don't have state taxes, and sometimes local taxes. 

00:17:36
Rob
The student loan payment, if you think of it like a tax, if it's going to increase someone's income and we'll help them do something that they really want to do, it could make sense to take out the debt in order to do that.

00:17:50
Dominique
And when you say. Thinking of it as a tax, just a portion, cause if I, I'm not W2 anymore, being self-employed, but the point is, there's a portion of whatever I make that I already know is not going to me. Right. I got money that goes over to a tax account. Cause I know that it was uncle Sam or whatever. Maybe almost kind of think about that. I don't know if you even advise that when your counsel was through the moment, it's like you almost create account to pay back your student loans. Like when your money comes in, you don't even see it. Like, that's almost like a, is a tax that you're paying. Just like your 401k or your medical benefits, is that maybe what you're referring to or something different. 

00:18:28
Rob
Yeah. Yeah. I mean the payment that goes out on a monthly basis to the loan servicer that is pretty much set in stone for 12 months,  so you certify your income using a tax return prior to your tax return. Your payments are based upon 10% of that income. Now they take adjusted gross income. It's after, pretax retirement and any other type of pre tax deductions. There's also like another deduction on the back end of between 20 and 30,000, depending on family size. If you look at it that way, it may only end up being like another 7% tax, in the form of a student loan payment, the most important thing with, for any financial success. Again, I always say like, you got to optimize your investments if you want to make money. It's true if you want to grow your money, but the most important skill. 

00:19:13
Rob
This is why I started family budget expert started having money leftover at the end of the month. Whether it's going to debt repayment, whether it's going to retirement, whether it's building an emergency fund, anything that is a net worth building activity, and people forget that paying down debt is a net worth building activity. You're taking a negative number and moving it up to zero. The interest rate on that debt, if someone is going the traditional route is a guaranteed tax-free rate of return on investment. So, but people that struggled, they don't, they can't figure out how to get the money left over at the end of the month, even make the student loan payments or even, make them pay their credit card bills off and stuff like that. That's a real, a big problem, but I think what student debt has done it, one of the silver linings of it is that, if you take a look at the stats, millennials are actually better budgeters than the baby boomers. 

00:20:03
Rob
There are more millennials who often get a bad rap for being financially irresponsible, but the stats show that they're not, and I know you and I are like right on the cusp, we're millennial, gen X-ers. So, people are taking this seriously and they need to, because it's a lot of debt. So, but at the end of the day, having that money leftover and figuring that out is going to be the number one skill set that's gonna allow getting out of debt of any kind and building wealth of any kind. 

00:20:32
Dominique
No. I think this kind of points to some of the solutions and, or fixing the mess, because I think one component that I hear you saying, and you didn't actually name it, but it's there it's financial literacy, right? It's knowing how your money works and cashflow being a big component of it. I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head with, a lot of people have, more month than money, but that's sometimes not because the product of how much they actually may. It's just because they don't really know where their money's going. They don't, they're spending on whatever and they don't have some type of tracking or they're not working with somebody to hold them accountable to helping them keep a budget. Let's kind of talk about that because I mentioned, earlier about, having this 675 FICO  and wanting to buy a house. 

00:21:21
Dominique
So, I get, buying a home is going to be, some of the things that people want to do to build wealth, but there's probably an order that they need to be in. Especially if they have a large amounts of student loan and we won't get into the weeds of that. What I do want to ask you are your thoughts, Rob, on financial professionals' approach to this, right? So you have a client come to you and they've got all this stuff going on and they've got student loans. I think this has been a particularly sensitive subject area for a lot of reasons. I think the main reason if I were to guess, is that although people may be doing well, nominally making six figures, doing all this kind of stuff, when they have six figures of student loan debt, to your point earlier, it's just a weight they got out. 

00:22:08
Dominique
They kind of can't even see, the forest for the trees because it's just right in front of them all the time. I wonder if you have any techniques for how you approach that as a financial professional, do you just say always outsource to like a student loan planner or is there some things that you can be doing as a financial professional to help ease that burden of people, even when you're sitting with them in that first meeting? 

00:22:34
Rob
Yeah. On the student loan side, at the end of the day, when people feel like they have a plan, a clear plan, they know their options, they know how to implement it. They know the path forward that clarity it on its own is a relief without the financial relief of knowing that they're going about it. The optimal way, 

 

00:24:14
Rob
People have a bunch of student debt, it's not necessarily about paying it back as much as having a clarity of how to pay it back. On the budget side and just general financial planning side, I always think that, we need the financial foundations. If we look at, Maslow's hierarchy, right? Which is the basis like safety and security and, basic needs to me, most people's food and shelter in the financial world, it's emergency fund and zero credit card debt. For people with student debt, you add in the student loan plan along that cause if people have cash, if they put all their money towards building up of a cash cushion, if they had zero credit card debt, because to me credit card debt is like the gateway drug into all sorts of financial ruin and any type of credit. Some people like, Oh, it's okay to just leave of a balance. 

00:25:08
Dominique
Well, that's like the toe over the line into that. So, people need to reset their thermostats of what they're comfortable with financially. Some people who are comfortable with, having a thousand dollars in the bank and of credit card balance, they need a really, like psychologically up what they're comfortable with. Because for example, let's just say someone's comfortable having a thousand dollars in the bank. Well, when they have $3,000 in the bank, they feel like they can go crazy and just, Hey, I got some extra money. I can spend it, but when their balances get into that zero, that puts a lot of stress on them. If they said I'm not comfortable with a thousand anymore, I only, I'm only comfortable. If I have 5,000 in the bank, then they'll get that fire burning to be more conscious of their spending until they get up to the 5,000. 

00:25:51
Rob
But, but in any case, if people have those three things, it's amazing, the relief that people get when they have a student loan plan, when they have no credit card payments other than, paying it off on a monthly basis. When they have a cash cushion in case something happens when those three check boxes are marked, I mean, they could, they feel like they can do anything. 

00:26:09
Dominique
And, Oh, I'm glad you said that because I think, 2020 Mark is a marker for, it's one of those things where, we'll look back I've made several just about this and that, me and my wife always go like, so what year was that? Like, we're not going to have that problem with 2020, but so 2020 handed us the global pandemic. I think to your point, some of the advice that I was giving my clients was like, Hey, if you want to double your emergency fund in a pandemic year, I'm not mad at you. Like we can sacrifice the six or 7%. I'm pretty sure we can make that up in the market. If you feel better by just upping that up and tightening the belt strings, because we don't know what's going to happen. This was like last March or April then that's cool. I think you give a lot of solid advice there because one thing that came to mind when you said the thousand dollars just made me think of Dave Ramsey, where it's like that, the baby emergency fund, but I mean, that could be gone so quickly, you might have to up that barrier. 

00:27:08
Dominique
What are some of the things that you think that people should be thinking about, in regards to, I guess, the psychology about that, I love the way you put that with mess off hierarchy or needs it, but just kind of, parried to the whole financial thing. There anything else that you would layer on top of that, those three things? 

00:27:27
Rob
Let me think about that. Yeah, I would say in terms of the student loans that, they kind of have, they can, it's okay to table them, even if it is a stress point, if someone has massive credit card debt, or they don't have a lot of money in the bank and their job could be at risk of going away or losing some income, then it's okay to pause the student loan payments and come back to it. I think at some point we have to pair things back, I would say like another thing along with that is just the mindset. There are people that obviously out there that can truly not afford certain things in life and not afford their pay, their rent or not afford their heating bill. That's a really terrible situation, but a lot of people use those words. I can't afford it when actually they can't afford it. 

00:28:15
Rob
Instead of using the word afford, I like to substitute, afford with choice, assuming that someone's in a situation where they do have a choice. So, because sometimes when we say afford, it's all, it puts us in a negative mindset that we are trapped and that we cannot do something that we want to do. If it's like, well, I could, go out to eat and spend $15 on lunch, or I could take that money and put it into retirement. It's about having that choice instead of saying, Oh, I can't afford to put money in my retirement, but because we're making decisions every day that we could actually choose to make a different choice. Especially with kids, you and I have kids and I'm very, we're in a position where obviously we can make choices. I'm very careful about using the word afford with them. I think just psychologically, when people have student debt, when they have credit card debt, when they have bank, if they're making it, when they've, low bank account balances, if you're really making above the poverty level and you can make ends meet, then stop using the word afford and start using the word choice. 

00:29:21
Dominique

 No, I love that. I think this is a reason why, and always get back to this theme. This is the reason why I think more often than not people need the accountability, the professionalism that is brought by a financial professional. It's just because it, and it may not because you're not a good investor. I mean, you might actually do well in the market, but as you're, as we've been having this conversation for the last 30 minutes, we've not even talked about investments, but all this stuff we've talked about are so crucial before you even get to the investment, because otherwise you may end up pulling out your 401k as good as it's doing in a year, like last year in 2020 to help subsidize your living expenses because you haven't done things in the right order.

00:30:16
Dominique 

So, what I would really love for you to opine on, is this notion about having a financial professional? 

Cause you said a couple of things there were so juicy. The first, the thing about choice, right? So I love the substitution of choice for four, because I think as financial professionals, what we are as stewards to help people take their limited time and money and spread that across unlimited choices. I think that's a beautiful way that you've put that. In regards to choice, let's talk about a specific strategy and I know you guys have some information on student loan planners that we'll definitely link up in the show notes. We got this whole thing with the zero interest moratorium. I've had clients ask me about that and strategize around whether I should refinance, but I'm in zero interest in blah. I think this points to let's talk to a professional, but I, since you are a professional you're boots on the ground, I want to get your opinion on maybe some strategies there or what the best next step would be for someone that has student loans, but we got the zero interest moratorium right now. 

00:31:14
Dominique
What are your thoughts on that? 

00:31:15
Rob
Yeah, well, it's been really great for people to have relief from their student loan payments and zero, not only zero payments with zero interest, like you said, and this goes back to, you've got to understand what the long-term strategy is best for you. If someone owes more in student debt than what they earn. Let's just say someone has a hundred thousand in debt and they're making 80,000, refinancing and paying it off might not be the ideal way to go. Believe it or not given that there's, income-driven repayment plans with loan forgiveness at the end. Or if someone is working for a nonprofit employer or a government employer, they could be eligible for public service loan forgiveness. Once someone refinances, those options are gone and they have to pay back the debt like they would engage with traditionally with debt. So, but for those people whose long-term strategy is to pay off the debt aggressively and get out of student debt and pay it off all the way. 

00:32:08
Rob
Because we're in COVID times and we're at the height of it seems like we're always hitting a new height. And, we don't know what's going to happen with local, what local municipalities and States are gonna choose to do in terms of shutting down. We know there's probably a massive mandate coming, but that doesn't, that could have actually helped open businesses back up. With that uncertainty kind of to your great point earlier is that, Hey, people should be taking this opportunity of zero payments to build up their cash. You know, their cash on hand. The 0% is going to be 0% until it's not. If someone builds up a bunch of cash in their bank account, and then at the end, when the 0% expires, they'd actually better off building up that cash. Right before the zero expires, then throw a huge lump sum at the debt rather than paying it off, because that way you're hoarding cash. 

00:33:00
Rob
If they extend the 0% in right now. Yeah. If Congress, now that we have a, a democratic Congress and president elect and vice president elect, they could extend it through September. Now, we think it's likely it's going to be extended through April may. So, in any case, it's okay to hoard cash and with zero payments and then throw a giant lump sum at it. Now for people who are in solid financial positions and they have their emergency fund, they're comfortable with their cash amount. It's okay. If they know their long term strategy is to pay back the debt in full to go ahead and refinance now, and you can go to studentloanplanner.com/refi, and we have some of the best cash back bonuses out there. Anyone with private debt, rates are at all time historic close or near that. Anyone with already private student loans should go to that website and explore if they can get an even lower rate because the game, when you're going to pay off your debt, all the way is get the lowest interest rate possible and pay it off as quickly as possible. 

00:33:59
Dominique
No, I agree. I, I, I highly endorse you guys. Whenever I have something out of my purview, I send my clients to you guys because I mean, I know the type of work that you go over to do over there. I know that the caliber of professionalism that, you and Travis and Lauren and Megan and all of those guys, operate with. So, highly recommend that because I think one of the things that I would like to say as a financial professional, that's been doing this for this is my 20th year in the industry is I think too often, we try to as financial professionals, whether we're entrepreneurs or working for a firm, we try to do too many things in house. There's not enough of collaboration and outsourcing to specialists. I, I don't do student loans. Well, like there's a whole world of that stuff that I'm supposed to know. 

00:34:51
Dominique
If I'm a specialist, but I'm not, so why not send them to somebody that knows what they're doing so that my client gets the best care. I think there's been this notion of, I say this, parenthetically I think there's been this notion that if you send your client away to somebody, then that client will want to stay with that person. What I would always say is the pushback was like, you must not be doing a great enough job. If you sit in your cloud away, they didn't, and they stay with someone. So, maybe that I hope for any financial professional, that's thinking about this a different way. Maybe you need to first start with your service model before you start thinking that everybody's trying to take your clients. That might be something to think about. 

00:35:28
Rob
To your point, I mean, three years ago, before I started working with a student loan planner, I would have given people horrible student advice. Cause I didn't know about it. I mean, it's like you have to do it everyday all day to understand the nuances and how to, in the rules of engagement, because it's not like any other kind of debt, there's not compound interest, you have income driven repayment, you have loan forgiveness options. You have, if you live in a community property state, like Texas, there's ways to take advantage of the community, property laws with splitting income. I mean, it's super complicated to understand everything, but giving the advice once we know all those details, it is, it becomes easier. So, it is a different beast. I think we work with financial advisors. We partner with financial advisors all the time, as and welcome the financial advisors to be on the call because the end client who has a student that has to be on the call, that's a must, but the advisor is more than welcome. 

00:36:21
Rob

In fact, it's encouraged for them to be on there because they need to understand what's going on the rules of engagement on how it works with a specific client and they can give more commentary and color so that we can give even better advice. It actually makes the advisors look really good. 

00:36:37
Dominique
I'm glad you said that. And it made me think about something. If you're a newer advisor or you're just thinking about this a little differently, let me give you a little wisdom. Hopefully is that if you look at student loan planners and the professionals there as an extension of your team, this is part of the service model you offer for clients that are experiencing difficulty with a strategy to pay back their student loans. You look at Travis and the team and Rob over there as an extension of what you do for your clients and you attend those calls. It just reinforces the value proposition to the client. I'm, I'm a hundred percent sure on this, try it. And you'll be surprised. 

00:37:21
Rob
Yeah, I appreciate that. 

00:37:22
Dominique
Now, let me do this as we're bringing this thing in for landing Rob, and I really appreciate your time today. This is a podcast to empower tomorrow's financial professionals with tools to serve their clients at an ideal, or their ideal clients at a next, at the next level. I think what we've been talking about, especially in the last 30 seconds or so has really underscored that. In that context, what word or words of wisdom would you leave with that next generation financial profile? 

00:37:54
Rob
Yeah. I would say that, there's a ton of financial advisors out there and financial planners out there and the broader public doesn't necessarily know the difference. We're a commodity, whereas, Oh, I have a financial advisor. Well, you really have to show your value to people. The service has to, you have to focus on the service and serving your client probably more than ever, especially with investments being, with robo-advisors the investment piece is more commoditized than ever now for those who are like specialists and investment management and can earn an excess return of proven to do that's fine. But, advisors really have to set themselves apart, being value add. I think it is really important to highlight the fact that, if you are a fiduciary saying that and telling people what that means, that you are, you have their best interests at heart. You're not trying to do this to make money. 

00:38:51
Rob
I mean, you're doing this to make money, but you're not doing this. The advice that you give is in their best interest, not in your best interest. I think that's really important to highlight. You hit on a great point, the accountability, a financial planner and financial advisor not only helps implement the plan, but they're also like the coach and the cheerleader and an accountability partner, the other, and then just one other thing I would say is that a lot of times as financial professionals, I was definitely, this is we get focused in optimization. What's the optimal path from a numbers perspective, but understand that most clients don't operate optimally. Maybe if they're a successful business owner, they might be a financially optimal person. The goal of a financial planner and financial advisor is to give the advice, give good, solid, conflict, free advice that the client's actually going to implement. 

00:39:43
Rob
You can get rid of some of the optimization if it's not as optimal, but it's going to be good for them if they'll do it. The idea is to get them to do it. We don't want to create financial plans that, are going to stick in a drawer or stay on their hard drive somewhere. They'd never be accessed. We want a living breathing plan that you can hold them accountable to. That's going to get them in the right place. And that resonates with them. Forget optimization, get a solid plan that they're actually gonna implementation is more, 

00:40:11
Dominique
No, I love that implementation over optimization. I love that. I think that's a soundbite that I'll have to retweet once we air this episode. Great stuff, Rob. I really love your approach. I really love your dedication to what you guys are doing over there. Again, if people are listening, have student loans, what is the best resource to point them to, in order to get in console in contact with you guys? 

00:40:42
Rob
Yeah. If someone is looking to get a plan, if you're an advisor out there and you have, someone with six figure student debt, if you go to studentloanplanner.com/help, that'll give all the information on the consult process and how to go through that the price will be based upon how much student debt they have, give you all the resources you need. Student loan, planner.com in general is a great resource for anything. If you're just wanting to get your feet wet and understand more about repayment and you have a client who is a particular profession, we have score. I mean, we have tons and tons of blog posts specific to certain professions, whether it's veterinarians, physician assistant, dentists, psychologists, whatever, if you go to our website and look at our blog posts, there will be some great resources for you to read up on. You can be informed when you're talking with your client about student debt. 

00:41:32
Rob
Yeah, I would say studentloanplanner.com is the best way to go. Dominique, like you said, don't feel like you have to have all the answers for your clients. You definitely want to be informed, but it's kinda like hiring an estate planner or an accountant. Student loans are a separate animal and there's certain complexities there that might require someone who does this everyday, all day. We've done over one point, we advised we've done, I think 4,500 individual one-on-one consults as a team. We've advised on over $1.2 billion of student debt. So, we have experienced and we'll be able to see the things that maybe you're not sure about. It'll make you look good for your clients, to bring in a professional, like you would like an estate planner and an accountant. And, don't make, let me just say that, I think what you're doing is fantastic. 

00:42:20
Rob
You're trying to help raise the level of the profession. I think we need more people like you out there. Helping people do a good job for clients at the end of the day, we want everyone to be successful financially, and we want to get the tools in people's hands. That is helping, it starts by helping the people who are giving the advice, to do a better job. I think that's awesome that you're doing this. 

00:42:41
Dominique
No, I really appreciate that, man. It's a, it's a labor of love. And, and one of the things that I, I know for my own spot is that, based on your success, and I think I heard Tyler Perry say, this is that once you get to a certain level of success and, or comfort your job is to hold the door open for others. I try to live by that as much as I can, but I really appreciate your time. Really, really appreciate your time. Thank you for being on man, but this appreciate it. 

 

00:43:37

Rob

Yeah. Yeah. Dominic, thanks so much.

CFFP #07 Understanding the Importance of Financial Planning ft. Ana Trujillo Limon

Show Notes:

 

Today’s conversation is with  Ana Trujillo Limon. Ana has worked in the communications and media industry for more than a decade. First as a reporter and now as editor-in-chief for the Financial Planning Association’s publications, including the APEX Award-winning Journal of Financial Planning and the FPA Next Generation Planner and Practice Management Blog. 

 

She also serves on the FPA Diversity Committee and is the co-founder of FPA Latino, a member resource group for Latino FPA members. 

 

Today we dive into why financial planning is important, what it means to Ana being a woman and a minority in the field, what the next 5 to 10 years may hold for the financial planning industry, and the steps needed to get into the financial planning industry. 

Show Highlights:

 

• Ana’s newly adapted “pandemic” routine (3:27)
• Ana shares what financial planning  means to her and talks about how it changes people's lives. (5:13)
• Ana explains why she hired a financial advisor and why everyone should hire one. (7:54)
• What Ana fields the next 5 to 10 years holds in the industry; how technology will affect clients; and the implications for providers of financial services. (13:45)
• The effect the pandemic has had on the financial planning industry and what may happen in the future. (17:32)
• Ana shares her tips on how to find a financial advisor that may best fit your needs. (19:20)
• Ana’s personal development path and her passion for diversity and inclusion. (27:48)
• Ana talks about her ideas to help underserved communities get access to financial advice.(31:47)

 

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Conversation Transcript:

00:00:00
Dominique
Welcome to conversations for financial professionals, a podcast to help shape the next generation of financial advice. I'm your host Dominique  Henderson today's conversation is with none other than Ana Trujillo Limon. The woman who has worked in communications in the media industry for more than a decade, and is the current editor in chief of the financial planning, associations, publications, including the apex award-winning journal of financial planning, the FPA next generation planner, and the practice management blog. You will not want to miss this conversation about understanding the importance of financial planning, where Ana and I talk about why financial planning is so important. She even gives a page from her own personal playbook about why she hired a financial planner. We also talk about where the financial planning industry is headed and the impact that's going to have on consumers as well as providers of financial services. 

00:00:56
Dominique
We provided a checklist for financial planning in practice. Something that consumers can use to find a good financial planner and financial professionals take note. These are the things that you can be doing to attract your ideal client. You will walk away from this episode, understanding the real importance of financial planning so that you will have the tools to serve your clients. At the next level. Let's get to the conversation with Donna. Welcome to another episode of conversations for financial professionals, where we are shaping the next generation of financial advice. And today we have Ana Trujillo Limon. Ana you've worked in the communications and media industry for more than a decade, first as a reporter, and now as editor in chief for the financial planning associations, publications, including the journal of financial planning and FPA next generational planner and the practice management blog. You also serve on the FPA diversity committee and are the co-founder of FPA Latino, a member resource group for Latino FPA members. 

00:02:04
Dominique
You enjoy spending time with your husband and your two dogs, Xena and Ballou. Welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today? 

00:02:11
Ana
I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. 

00:02:16
Dominique
I'm glad to have you on, I, there's been this weirdness of 2020, that's now behind us and there's just so many moving parts. I, I mean, I was really, happy that you, accepted the invite and whatnot. I think we're going to have some fun today. First of all, we got to know this, you're, I'm a fellow dog owner. What kind of dogs do you have? 

00:02:40
Ana
Yes, I have German. They're both German shepherd mutts. Xena is a German shepherd Ridgeback mix, and Ballou is a German shepherd, Siberian Husky next. So. 

00:02:52
Dominique
I have a Collie mix also. 

00:02:54 

Ana
Oh, wow. How cute. I bet he's very fairy. 

00:02:57
Dominique
Yes. He has hair everywhere. That's going to be a whole nother podcast that we'll have to talk about. Some other points. Your new year now, do you have any, special routines or anything that you do? when It, when we leave one year and come into another, I mean, and especially with this being a, let's call this, let's call it 20 an asterix year because I don't know that we've, I haven't seen this in my years. What are, what are some things that Ana does? 

00:03:27
Ana
This year, my husband and I usually do a deep clean of our house and kind of rearrange and do new things. So, we rearranged our whole house last weekend and then did a deep clean and got all our groceries set up and have everything. We could have a successful launch to our week and that really helps doing the preparation stuff. Another thing we do is we try to have revitalized focused on our health. My husband's a personal trainer, so it's kind of a blessing and a curse to have a personal trainer as a husband. So we've been going to the gym. We don't usually lift weights together and go to the gym together, but we're trying this new routine out where we actually work out together and it's been really fun. It's been a really nice way to start the day and I, I'm not I'm I just made a resolution like I'm just going to listen to him and not resist what he asked me to do. 

00:04:18
Ana
And so far it's going well.

00:04:21
Dominique
That's good for you and him. Huh? That's great. That's great. Well, I think that's a good segue into the topic for today, which is planning specifically understanding the importance of financial planning. I, I think you are a great person to talk to about this in our short conversations prior to this, I know that obviously kind of serve, let's call them the providers of financial services in a way, because you have the publications and the blog articles and all that kind of stuff that we may provide to consumers of financial services. At the same time, that magazine is not just meant for practitioners, but also shaping the way that we give financial advice. And you also have a financial planner. I think you're an excellent example of what we're talking about today. 

00:05:13
Ana
Definitely. Yeah. So, so for me, financial advice is just, it's financial guidance that has the ability to change people's lives. I've said it before in other podcasts I've been on, but I didn't even know what financial planning was really until I started this job. Like I'd heard of it. I knew my parents had a financial advisor who was mostly an insurance broker with the title financial advisor. It really is guidance that changes people's lives. It's just, it's an amazing profession and it's really vital just like your doctor or your dentist. It's a really vital service that you need to have. 

00:05:47
Dominique
Yeah. So talk about that a little bit. I think that you bring a unique perspective, not just because you're a woman, not just because you're a minority, but those things obviously shape your money story, how you were brought up and you say, your parents had, a financial advisor that was, really, probably more into the product sales kind of talk about your perspective as a consumer of financial services and a curator of all this financial content. Like how has it helped maybe your experience as a person that uses the services of a professional? 

00:06:23
Ana
I think it's made me a more educated consumer, the job that I have in particular, like knowing better, what questions to ask or knowing it brought down that barrier and that intimidation that a lot of people feel when they want to seek out financial services help, because it is kind of scary. It's well, I don't want to be embarrassed and I don't want people to know, I don't know things, but it's like, we don't look at any other profession that way we don't prepare when we go to the doctor and be like, I need to know what I'm going to say to the doctor. They don't think I'm dumb or don't, so that level of intimidation that is there for consumers and potential clients in financial services, is not there for other professions. That's something kind of that, reading more on my own and reading more at work has kind of helped me get over myself. 

00:07:11
Ana
I think that's a barrier for clients and potential clients that we need to consider moving forward. 

00:07:17
Dominique
Where do you think that comes from though? That's good. You raise a really good point and insight. That's a good insight because I just went to the doctor for some labs the other day and I didn't, kind of steady up on my hemoglobin levels in my lip panel. I didn't, I didn't do. I'm like, that's what they're there for, like what do I need to know that for? And I don't feel that diminishes me to an extent that I can't interact with that professional, but to your point, you're right. People feel that way when it comes to financial services professionals, some people feel that way, that they need to know a certain amount of information. I don't know, do you have any insights as to why people feel that way? 

00:07:54
Ana
I think that there's this misconception that we need to know about money and about how money works in the language of money without seeking professional help. I think there's this, I feel like there's a misconception that's perpetuated by social media. Like, oh, look at how successful I am. Look at this house I have with it, these cars I have and people give this carefully cultivated image that they're really good on their own with money. I don't feel like that's the case. A lot of times these carefully cultivated images are just people in a lot of debt or people who do have good financial planners, but then they never say that they never say, I, my financial planner really helped me with, my portfolio and I really did well and here I'm treating myself or whatever. They never talk about that aspect. I, and I think it's a problem that's perpetuated by social media. 

 

00:08:42
Dominique
No, I would agree. What if you don't mind sharing what made you hire a financial planner? Because a lot of people would probably just look at your resume on the surface and why did she need a financial planner? She's like already in the industry? She probably knows a lot. What, like what made, what was the personal decision that you came to, as to why you hired one? 

00:09:07
Ana
Great. Great question. Yeah. I think a lot of times in life, when we, the more we learn, the more we realize, wow, there's more, so much more, I don't know, like, something on the surface and feel like that false confidence, like I really know things, but then you dive deeper. The more I got into this job, the more I was like, I need help. I need, I don't know what I'm doing. This is all very specialized skills. Just like, when I needed help with exercise, I hired a personal trainer or when I needed help with eating right, I hired a nutritionist. I don't know what I'm doing with my money. So I hired a financial planner. That's one of the, my biggest pieces of advice is if you need help and we all do, you should definitely seek out financial planning. 

00:09:53
Dominique
Okay. And you just made a statement there. I wanna, I wanna, I want to stay there for a minute. You said, if you need help and then you say, well, we all do. I kinda think that, and this is not because I make, most of my living doing this is that I don't know that there's a lot of people on this planet, not just in the US but on this planet that can manage their money and reach their financial goals without a tremendous amount of bias in the situation. Because it's your money you worked for, you feel like you're entitled to this, that, and the other. I think that is the really big obstacle that prevents people from making the best decisions with their money, more than anything, which is the reason why I say it's great to have a financial professional helping you out. 

00:10:43
Dominique
That's the reason why I kind of believe no one can really do this on their own, my business, a smaller percentage of the population, but you said everyone needs one. You mind expanding upon that a little bit . 

00:10:53
Ana
Yeah. So I mean, the money language, right. Money is core to everything we do. It's, it's, it helps us buy the homes we live in and the cars we drive and invest in the future. We can help our kids go to college or help pay for things it's central to everything in our lives. If we don't know that language ourselves, and most of us, don't majority of us don't. Even those of us who do have blind spots, right. Even planners need planners because you have those blind spots and I'm going to go back to the medical analogy. Like you're not gonna, get some weird patch, change, chest pain, and then just look it up on the internet and be like, okay, I know what it is. I know I can handle this on my own. You're not going to do that. So it's the same thing with money. 

00:11:35
Ana
It's like, I didn't understand the concept of compounding interest since I was well into  my twenties. I didn't realize that the damage I had done on credit cards in college would have a ripple effect on the rest of my life. These are things that, if you have one impact one generation really does impact the generations coming up behind you. It has those relationships because our relationship with money is tied into how we saw our parents do things and how we see our, even our siblings do things, right? So even if maybe, our parents don't have the best money habits, but then you have a sister who at 21 years old bought her own house, and she's really savvy those kinds of things in print on you and how the ripple effect on the generation. It really, it really is an essential service to manage that central core money language that is central to everything in our lives. 

00:12:28
Dominique
No, I can't agree more, which is the reason why I'm harping on this subject, so much, cause I've worked with clients that have a lot of, let's call it balance sheet wealth, but inside of them, they feel like they're poor. Since they feel like that inside, it dictates a mindset that creates actions that are not good for them. And eventually they blow through this money. People have seen this before because, athletes or lottery winners or all these people that we've heard that have all these millions of dollars or whatever, it seemed like they have their needs met, but then because they don't have the education or the money, the correct money story that you're like you're alluding to, then they end up losing all that. So, no, I, I would totally agree with that. Let's talk about where from where you sit, you have a really unique view, curating all this content I'm interested to see where you think the financial planning industry is headed. 

00:13:28
Dominique
I want to look at this question from, really two angles, really from the angle, first of the consumer of financial services. As well as the provider of financial services, like where do you see us going with this thing? And let's call it the next five or 10 years. 

00:13:45
Ana
Yeah. From the consumer perspective, I feel like, so you participated in our FinTech issue. You answered some questions for me I'm and so that stuff is fresh in my mind of the impact of the pandemic on planning and on technology. Someone brought up a really good point of that. Consumers are going to start to weigh their experiences with financial services, with what they're seeing with technology in the regular consumer space, right? So we have like, they likened it to smart refrigerators and apps that can help us do anything in orders, anything that we want at any time of day. It comes to our doorstep within a few hours within a day. Those types of experiences are going to start to, dictate what clients want from planners and want from their digital experiences in finding, from that perspective and from, the planning perspective, I really feel like financial planning is going to start to have more far reaching effects. 

00:14:44
Ana
I'm starting to see this trend of more people knowing about it. More people seeing it as that really true like lawyers and like doctors. I think that we're going to start to see that more solidified within the next five and 10 years, that really solid finally becoming the profession that we've always wanted to be in financial planning. And, and because of that, I think that the different models of pricing are going to start to, be more diverse because that's really a barrier to entry for a lot of people. Like I alluded to earlier with that intimidation factor, there's also that I can't afford this factor. I don't have enough assets to do that. There's a lot of myths like misunderstandings out there from consumers who think that they can't afford this or that it's not for them or that it's for only the wealthy or the 1%, but really it's an essential service for everybody. 

00:15:36
Ana
I'm starting to see, different, business models that are serving more of the majority members. Like for instance, I am a client of facet wealth, is a subscription model based, company. That really was, it kind of got rid of that. I can't afford financial planning services mindset that I had previously had and it made it more accessible. So, I tell all my friends who are maybe, middle income to the lower income spectrum, like, hey, you guys can really afford this. You should try it out, just check it out, have an introductory call. So I think there's going to be start to, we're going to start to see more of these facet wealth business models, more of these models that can serve everybody and reach everybody. 

00:16:16
Dominique
No, you make a lot of good praise. I'm trying to see where I want to, what tangent I want to go down because, I love the smart refrigerator example in that, as a consumer, I'm just thinking about my own preferences where, I have my groceries delivered largely. I have Amazon prime, but basically delivers everything to my doorstep. All it doesn't make sense really for me. I mean, I guess I could think about it this way, but in my mind, the more and more this evolves, I'm probably not, which is, I don't think I want to go sit down somewhere. Right. And here's a perfect example. So my bank is closing. It's a subsidiary of a bigger bank. It's for small business owners. I got an email yesterday that it's closing. I was like, well, when, and they were like, well, it's not going to be, but it's going to be months, not weeks, but in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, where's another online bank. 

00:17:09
Dominique

Cause I don't feel like sitting in a bank filling out paperwork because that's not my experience. That's not what I'm used to. I think what I'm hearing you say is that financial services, although not totally there, like if you're coming into this industry in the next five to 10 years, you need to be thinking that way because that's where we're going. With the level of technology outside of this industry, is that true? 

00:17:32
Ana
That's true. Yeah, and what I'm hearing from the professionals that, are the two trend spotters is that the pandemic has really accelerated that trend. And we've all been privy to that. Like I, I interviewed, Danny Fava from investment a couple of weeks ago and she's always so brilliant, and has really great insights. She talks about those people, this is our experience. Now the pandemic has made everything like, just like you said, I don't want to go to somebody's office. Like my financial planner lives in my neighborhood and I've never met her. And I'm cool with that. I'm okay with that. I think that's going to be, clients are going to want that in the future are going to want that, people are still not wanting to go and interact and be face-to-face with somebody right now. I don't know how long it's going to take for people to get over that. 

00:18:16
Ana
I think it's going to be a while. 

00:18:19
Dominique
Yeah, I think it, I think, traditionally this industry has been one where you feel that there's more tangibly that you can tell about a person when you're sitting across from them, as far as just, picking up on body language, staring them in their eyes, things of that nature to kind of pick up basically on whether you can trust them or not. That's basically what it boils down to. And, and the reason why that barrier of trust is so high is obviously because our financial life is at stake, but I think, I would love for your opinion on, you said it just now he was like your financial advisor lives in your neighborhood, but I've never met them. I'm assuming this has been through phone or through zoom in which you're still able to exchange that trust. So talk about that a little bit. 

00:19:03
Dominique
And, and maybe why do you think that is that particular to your demographic and how you were raised, maybe how old you are, like, what do you, what are your thoughts around how that trust is developed so easily? Maybe with our age group versus older people? 

00:19:20
Ana
I think that zoom, like, for instance, we met once before this and it was just like, I felt very comfortable just talking to you. I feel like I'm talking to you face-to-face right now, like I can see your facial expressions. I can see your reactions to what I say. I'm thinking with my financial planner, like we just connected. Right. It was that same, just talking and seeing each other on this is fine with me. I think it goes, in addition to I am a millennial and I do prefer, more technologically focused services, but I also am an introvert and I know it's hard to believe I'm my boss recently told me like, what, you're an introvert, like, no, I have to really hype myself up and practice and do all, so the point is that personality perspective is also in play here. I would prefer to be in the comfort of my home and my little home office here. 

00:20:12
Ana
I feel more comfortable to be myself here. Maybe that's why I seem so extroverted because I'm in my comfort zone. I am, this is my castle. And I am completely 100% myself here. If I were sitting in an office and a big conference room table, I might feel differently. I only ever had virtual experiences with financial planners before facet, I tried out learn best when I was, early on in my career, I cannot learn best when I was, not making a lot of money, not don't have a lot of assets and it was not a very good experience. Like the financial planner I did have, she, it was via phone back then. It was not a video conference. Just like the way you make people feel is also a very important thing moving forward. She kind of made me feel like you don't make enough money. 

00:21:01
Ana
You need to get a side gig. You need to, cut back on X, Y, and Z. It was like, well, if I'm not making enough money, I clearly don't have enough money to be a financial planner. I should just, I have to drop this service. That kind of turned me off for a really long time until, fast, that law came along and we were able to have FPA in place. We're able to have access to this type of planning. That was, that is another aspect of just the personality types I think helps build trust. Like for instance, my financial planner also has a Shefsky, which we call the Shepherd Husky mix. That was one of the things like her being able to that those commonalities, that helps create the bond, but also the technology. This zoom has been really like, just like you said, for our January or February FinTech issue, zoom is, has become invaluable. 

00:21:51
Ana
To me too, as a reporter and as an editor, and I'm sure for financial planners, I think the seeing each other element is really great. 

00:23:05
Dominique
I wondered if you could maybe share with us like a checklist, again, because of where you sit in your perspective. I think it would be great, a checklist for consumers to kind of be thinking about what makes a good financial planner. Maybe these are some things or some items that, from straight from an honest playbook. Before you say this, I want the people listening that are aspiring financial professionals. They'll really look at this because I think hearing it from a consumer can help you shape what you want or how you want to build your business. In regards to some of the things you just named, just the, what I call bedside manner. Not making people feel, stupid, or like they're asking dumb questions. These things are very important in the beginning process, but I'll let you take the, take it right here with the checklist. 

00:23:59
Ana
Yeah, sure. That's a great question. I think one of the, we don't have like at, in the journal or anything, any checklist that we've developed, but I'm glad you said it was from my perspective, because that makes me feel okay, so this is what I do, right? So you have to, I think consumers have to be really diligent about, seeing multiple people in the introductory and introductory meetings and seeing if you get a good feel for them and then looking at your own needs and determining what is it that I need from this person. Looking at that person's expertise and  okay. I have, a couple of kids in elementary school and I want to start planning for their college planning. This person, well equipped to help me with that college funding? Are they helping with taxes? I may, and then looking at the certifications that align with those things, like at FPA, we primarily serve CFP professionals and believe very, diligently that certification really helps you identify people who will serve your interests above their own. 

00:24:55 

Ana
I am, I've only ever had CFP professional financial planners. I believe, I always recommend when my family or my friends are looking for financial planners, like, make sure to check to see if they're a CFP professional, double-check on the CFP website. That if they say they are, so just things like that. This whole element of, like I said before, the face-to-face meetings to make sure you vibe is essential, because just like you said, money is a very intimate relationship and you're letting somebody into that. It shows you more than just, where you spend your money, how you spend your money habits, it all has implications like psychological implications in a way it all plays together. It can tell your financial planner is going to know so much more about you than your doctor than your counselor. It's like just by looking at your money habits. Finding someone you trust and you vibe with is really important. 

00:25:53
Dominique
No, I, I mean, I say this all the time and I don't know if it's off putting to people or polarizing, but it is so true. It's the only really analogy that I can put it is when you come to a financial planner, it's like, you're really getting financially naked. It's, it's very vulnerable. It's a very vulnerable place to be. I think that's why it's so important for financial professionals to have also the EKU skills, the soft skills that go with this, because people are so vulnerable when it comes to their money. There's not a lot of like, in those first, intimate moments, there's just some things you can say wrong that will just totally, kind of could put the relationship going forward. So I'm glad you mentioned that. I also want to kind of go down to the, you said some things at the beginning of your list about finding the person that's right for you. 

00:26:44
Dominique
I think, there's been a lot of talk around, diversity inclusion and, gender equality and things of that nature. I think what it boils down to is if I'm, whatever person, whatever walk of life I've come from, it's very important for me to be able to see myself in my planner. What I mean by that is people that share common goals, common interests, common values, maybe ethnicity. I think this, those are some very tertiary type of things. But values, you know, very much. So. Can you talk about, maybe your perspective on that? I know you recently completed a program, at Cornell university about diversity inclusion and maybe some of the things that you pulled out of that program that kind of speak to how, as an industry, we need to do a better job so that consumers can look inside the industry and say, oh, I see somebody that looks like me. 

00:27:45
Dominique
Maybe let me go check out working with that person. 

00:27:48
Ana
Great, great question. Yeah. In addition to the EEQ element, there's a culturally competent element that needs to happen. Because we don't have the numbers of, black, Latino, Asian, all these different types of planners to serve the vast majority of people in the country who look like them. That cultural competence element is really critical. I think over the last few years, there's been some progress, but, I really do feel that we need to make more progress on this element because, when we talk about things like systemic racism and the structural inequality that's out there that has impacted as people of color has impacted our ability to build generational wealth. If you don't understand those things as a planner and you go in and you're helping a Latina and you don't factor in that. I make less money. Like, for instance, research has shown that Latinas make 54 cents to a white man's dollar. 

00:28:45
Ana
Like if you don't come in knowing that type of thing and knowing how that has impacted my savings levels or the amount of money in my 401k, or it has a ripple effect, the systemic alums have a ripple effect. If you come in and approaching the same way you would, somebody who's in my same position is maybe, a white male who makes maybe tens of thousands of dollars more than me. And, having those cultural competence skills to understand that will really help me see that you care about me, like giving me, maybe recommending tools like negotiation books, or negotiation skills, like for instance, another part of this systemic problem is that I didn't know, going into, my professional years that you have to negotiate your salary. I'm a big believer in telling everybody I know every woman of color go in there and negotiate that salary don't accept that first offer because that will have impacts on your lifetime wealth. 

00:29:42
Ana
So, yeah, so I just think that when we bring that as people of color, when we bring up those issues, it might be uncomfortable, but just be empathetic and understand the systems are built to keep us down. And our successes are despite those systems. Understanding that is really helpful and not coming from a place of defensiveness or like, I, Oh gosh, that's just a, that's so long ago that is just why aren't you over that? It's like, because it's still very much present in all of our systems and that's why we're not over it. So understanding that. 

00:30:19
Dominique
These are good points, I think, and I'm, I've mentioned this on a couple of recordings, and hopefully, we get the reach that we want so that this gets to the right ears. But, I look at my Alma mater, previewing the university that has a, a CFP program or a financial planning minor. I look at, kids that grew up like me look like me coming through this learning, the greatness of this profession. And, granted, there's going to be some bad actors in here that come through the school and try to get them to sign up for a job that is mostly sales. I totally get that. At the end of the day, I do believe that, exposure is probably one of the best tools and where I'm going with this is, do you have some ideas around how we can take what we currently have in the industry and make it better to get more, I would say really young people that have not yet been exposed to this or exposed to this industry to realize this is a great profession, because, if we don't have professors teaching this, because we don't have programs at these schools, then how are we going to groom the next, crop of financial professionals that look like the population that you're talking about? 

00:31:47
Ana
Yeah, that's a wonderful question. I think there are people in the profession doing some really great work in terms of laying the groundwork and building that foundation of financial literacy among, kids from rural areas, kids like me. I grew up in a town of 800 people. We didn't have a stoplight. None of us knew about money, so reaching out and for instance, Tyrone Ross and Jamie Hopkins have developed a financial literacy program. I interviewed Tyrone a few months ago and he talked about getting this program for free, into rural schools, into schools, with higher high numbers of black and Latino kids. And, and I think that work is so essential because right now we're trying to reach underserved populations, but, there's still this level of distrust, in communities of color of the financial industries. It's a long game and for good reason, and it's a long game. 

00:32:35
Ana
It's like, okay, so we're not going to see the high numbers. We're not going to see a ton of influx of, people of color into the profession, because right now we have to build that foundation right now, we're trying to build a mansion on a shaky foundation and people like Tyrone Ross and Jamie Hopkins are going in there and doing that foundation work now. And we need more of it. We need more people than just a few people doing this work. We need everybody on board to help get these programs into the schools and go out there and talk to the kids. And, when one of the, it won't help bring people into the ranks of financial planning, but it will help bring more underserved populations going out to those, like, HBC youth and Hispanic serving institutions and talking to those, medical students or engineering students. 

00:33:20
Ana
These, these students are going to go out there and make six figures and not really know what to do with it. That's one element of, to go into like the Colorado school of mines, for instance. We're a kids out of mines here just in golden, Colorado makes six figures their first year. And my sister was one of them. That's why that's the only example I use it. And, you know, she recognized the importance. Like I need to invest my money. I need to buy a house I need to, so she was on top of it, but not everybody is like her. So, getting in front of these people in front of these kids and reiterating the importance of managing your money while early, because it will impact the rest of your life, I think is really some great ideas to do that. I think targeting professional organizations like affinity group organizations that help serve professionals, like for instance, I'm a graduate of a fellowship program called the Latino leadership Institute. 

00:34:15
Ana
I has a partnership with Belco credit union, which is a really big credit union here in the Denver area. They have well back pre COVID had in-person events where they would do, financial planning, workshops, and college planning workshops, and different types of things. Because they had that sponsorship relationship. If you, if firms and big companies are able to forge those relationships and go in there and talk to these professionals, because a lot of people in my cohort didn't have actual planners. Rianka, they're saying bill said, once in a retreat presentation, she gives she's spreads a good gospel of financial planning. I always have Rianka in my mind when I'm, I need to tell people about this profession. I, I don't know the Rianka knows she inspired me that way, but I do go out there and tell everybody I know about financial planning. I think connecting with those types of organizations is really critical to serving the populations who have, past college years already graduated while into their professional years and still haven't engaged a financial planner. 

00:35:17
Dominique
No, no, I would agree. I would agree on that regard. I think that's a good segue to, allowing you to kind of talk about some of the resources inside of, FPA and some of its benefits and, or, I guess, tools that could be used by, financial, in order to do some of the things that we're talking about or to build their practice or to reach underserved communities, what are some of the things that FPA is doing, or maybe that financial professionals can partner with FBA on? 

00:35:49
Ana
Definitely. Yeah. We're in talks with, a nonprofit based here in Denver to provide diversity and inclusion training to our members. We haven't finalized it yet, so I won't say too many details, but it's like a cohort like program that does diversity and inclusion training through the lens of neuro, diversity and, self awareness type of thing. It works on your leadership skills first and then teaches you those inclusion skills and marries the two. That way you then go out back to your farm and create this inclusive environment. Because I think a lot of the problem is that we have a wealth of talent coming into the profession, people of color coming into the profession, but then they go into these environments that are maybe not as inclusive or comfortable, and then they leave. The skills to create that inclusive environment are very essential. That understanding that diversity and inclusion are two totally separate things. 

00:36:48
Ana
We don't have the inclusion. If you don't have both, it's not going to work. So that's one thing we provide. We have a lot of content, in the journal, every November, we have a diversity equity and inclusion issue. We're providing that type of content for our members. We have an ongoing resource page, which I could send you the link to, which has just links to books and articles that we've written articles from are all of the trade pubs within the profession links to Rianka his podcast, which is 2050 trailblazers, which has really has some really great takeaways. Really wonderful guests. Both doing great work in this realm. Anytime rank on Lou that I have something out there, I put it on that page, because they're really doing the great work, but we're being more mindful, more cognizant of providing this type of content for our members. 

00:37:41
Ana
And it's, we're at the beginning stages. The D D I issue is only in its third year, this year in 2021. We it's slow progress, but it's really impactful progress. 

00:37:56
Dominique
No, I would agree. I think, and this topic, this is a big topic and I really appreciate you for taking it on, understanding the importance of financial planning comes from, I mean, you can look at this from so many different angles. I was talking with Bob verus, on this topic and, McKinsey Scott just donated, well, she's donated a lot of money over the last several months, but she, gave a pretty significant gift to my Alma mater. And, one of the ideas that I was thinking, I was like, well, this would be great. I mean, you got, aspiring financial professionals and, taking this financial planning as a minor shouldn't, we have some type of incubator for the, in that we could offer, financial planning pro bono, give these students the experience that they need so that when they sit for the CFP exam, they don't have to wait another two or three years for experience, because they're already doing some of these things. 

00:38:51
Dominique
And, I, I, I know that there are ideas out there. It's just that I think there's way too much segmentation in our industry and we need to work together so that the consumer has benefited because if the consumers benefit, everybody wins and I think that's where we need to be headed. I really appreciate you coming on and talking about some of these really super big topics. This is, in our, in closing this podcast, as on, is to help empower, tomorrow's financial professional with tools to serve their ideal client at the next level, in that context, what words or word of wisdom do you have to leave with the next generation financial professional? 

00:39:36

Ana
Yeah. Oh, that's a really great question. Let me get back to that in a second, but I, I, when you asked me about more resources and I just, I realized, I forgot to mention, a few really great ones that we have, which you reminded me of when you talked about the experience that the students could have. We do have a really wonderful externship program that was spearheaded and launched by Hannah Moore. That provided, a lot of aspiring professionals to get that the, all, a lot of their experience credit for, to sit for their exam and do those things. It was a really interesting we're going to have it again this year, and I'm really excited to see because it was so well attended and well received last year, I'm still getting messages from people who participated. 

00:40:20
Dominique
1700 people or something. I talked to Hannah about this. I mean, it was incredible. So that is a really good program. I'm glad you're. 

00:40:28
Ana
Yeah. We also have member research groups other than FP Latino, that people can get involved with. And so I've paid Latino. We, we kind of focus a lot on creating awareness of the profession. We work in conjunction with alpha, which is the association of Latino professionals for America. We have a lot of events where we'll have professionals come and do a panel and talk about financial planning and talk about the barriers to entry. Those have been really well received and well attended. We have our pride planners, which is for our LGBTQ plus community. We have our African-American knowledge circle, and then we're working on starting, an Asian American and Pacific Islander group. Those are really great resources to connect with other people to get those mentorships, because I find as a professional mentorships have been really critical for me and especially to get me into this profession and to keep me here, I'm not a financial planner, but I am here to say, as long as I can, because of the mentors I've had in this profession, some of whom Sandra Davis is one of them. 

00:41:30
Ana
I just love Sandra. She's a gem and, my, the old editor of the journal, Carlucci, lockers and other. So, that segues into my words of wisdom for our next generation of financial planners is just to find those mentors and really learn from them, really be Danny Fama says, is be curious and ask questions and be comfortable with not knowing everything because we don't, we really know closer to nothing than we know to everything. Just embracing that and acknowledging that, and just, asking as many questions as you can, even, if you think you're going to sound dumb or sound, ledgeable, it doesn't matter because that's how you learn asking questions and learn as much as you can from everybody around you, because you really can do that. 

00:42:16
Dominique
Wow. Wow. Really, really great insight. Really great perspective. Ana you're doing great work at the FPA, keep it up. We're really happy to have had you on the podcast with us and sharing your wisdom. 

00:42:32
Ana
Great. Well, thank you so much for having me. It's been the highlight of my year so far. 

00:42:38
Dominique
We, we hopefully only go up from here. Hopefully we can only go up great stuff on, take care and have a great one. 

00:42:46
Ana
Thank you.